Today's offer, Crave World Clock,appears to be an instant hit. Within 4 hours of the software becoming available there are 40+ votes giving a four star approval to the software. The voting system is being manipulated quite shamelessly. What a cynical and disgusting approach. Poor Ashraf has been given some 40 odd negative votes. When I tried to post it in the comments section, I get a "Bad Gateway" error, something that's never happened before. Makes me wonder.
Is Someone Tampering With The Votes?
(28 posts) (7 voices)-
Inas
MemberHi PRS,
To resolve the "502" Bad Gateway error message (which I also got) - try using one of the GOTD international sites (French, Italian, etc.) - as these particular sites are not as "busy" as the USA site. This has worked well for me so far. As for the negative votes for Ashraf - yes, I noticed this too. Don't know what's up with that.
Best,
InasPosted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberOh, and one more thing - my review (for yesterday's giveaway) also received many negative votes (without apparent logic or reason, in my humble opinion). I say this because my review gave valuable, helpful info. to others (again, in my humble opinion.)
After being a longtime member of GOTD, I have come to the conclusion that voters give other members a thumbs-up or thumbs-down simply based on popularity (and not on the true value or merit of a person's review or comments)- which is very sad indeed.
The voting system has become merely a "popularity contest" or an "I feel like giving someone a negative rating today for no good reason at all" kind of exercise, which is a big shame, for this truly makes a mockery of the origianl intent of the GOTD voting process.
Again, this is my own personal opinion, but per the voting trend we have seen over time, I believe my opinion is based on valid factual occurrences thus far, and I'm sure others will agree with me on this point.
Posted 14 years ago # -
caulbox
MemberI agree with your comments Inas, but recently (especially with regards to Ashraf) things appear a bit more sinister to me.
Was like a metronome earlier today. Only 3 comments all updated with synchronicity - Negative, Positive, Negative - regular as clockwork. Struck me as being more the workings of an individual's (or bot's?) contrived cunning, rather than a group of naysayers with a lot in common and nothing better to do but click buttons in harmony.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberYes, Caulbox, now that you mention it, it does seem a little bit odd (as you say) and I think this was also the pattern yesterday, perhaps?
I actually wrote a review this morning (at about 3:39 am USA ET) and it still is not showing up on the download page - but this is a totally different issue than what we are discussing.
I understand, realize, and appreciate that the download/comments page moderators are volunteers and they have their own lives to lead on the weekends, but it would be nice (and for everyone's benefit) if more weekend comments were published on the site, so users can read others' reviews before downloading and installing the giveaway program.
I offered to volunteer my time and services twice before, but nobody has responded to me - GOTD admin folks, I am offering yet again my volunteer services to moderate the download/comments/giveaway page, if this will help improve things for everyone.
You have my email address, so please contact me if you want to take me up on my offer.
Best,
InasPosted 14 years ago # -
prs
MemberFor a long time there were only three comments in the GOTD page (where the software is offered) and I feared something other than the mods enjoying their weekend. And Lo behold, the constipation is relieved and now there are 58 comments. Dont think we will ever know what the problem was. The shameless manipulation of the scoring system however continues. The average votes polled (for the stars) is about 50-60 over 24 hours. Today, within 10 hours, the rating for "reasonable price" has already polled 103 votes and yes you guessed it, it gets four stars! Amusing
Posted 14 years ago # -
The voting and rating are looking suspicious since yesterday, in deed, and the bad gateway is back. Therefore I would think that's any technical glitch and don't think it's any conspiracy.
As long as the users may vote anonymous, they will vote as they want to, with only their own "rules", unfair or not.
Besides that, lots of users prefer technical oriented in-depths reviews, written by computer experts.Posted 14 years ago # -
@ HappyPerson:
A moderator/administrator for the main page needs some technical know-how and experience; otherwise s/he could screw up a lot. To be well-meaning is not enough.
And once again, when you want to communicate with the GOTD project team, please do so directly.graylox
Posted 14 years ago # -
caulbox
MemberBesides that, lots of users prefer technical oriented in-depths reviews, written by computer experts.
My money's on Fubar at the moment!
(not wishing to be detrimental - I too sincerely appreciate Fubar's expert reviews and warnings....but I have to wonder if the metronome's started to tick again today)
Edit to add:
I might be mistaken here. Could be just normal positive feedback that I was observing. Things now do seem to have slowed down considerably. But although it's usually pretty quiet at this time within a GOTD period, only a few minutes ago I was observing a constant and predictable upgrade of 2 or 3 positive ratings every 10 seconds or so. I wanted to point to the occurance whilst it was still active and live. My apologies if I was indeed mistaken.
Posted 14 years ago # -
prs
Member"As long as the users may vote anonymous, they will vote as they want to, with only their own "rules", unfair or not"
Sorry Graylox, I am not able to look at the perversion of the rating system by the vendor or their cronies with mild indulgence. Whenever I spot a possible scam, I feel it should be highlighted and brought to the notice of the community.Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberI agree with you 100%, PRS. It is beneficial for community members to share ideas and concerns with one another - at the very least, even if we are not able to solve these problems ourselves, knowing about the problems will make us more savvy GOTD community users, for the good of all.
Posted 14 years ago # -
All this effort invested to supposedly manipulate the voting system - at the end of the day, do you realise what these votes are actually worth?
Absolutely nothing.
Undoubtedly there are ways to manipulate the votes, but when you see for a category a grand total of 100 votes, from perhaps 15,000 or 20,000 downloads - just how statistically significant do you think that voting opinion really is?
The vast majority of users don't bother to vote or leave a comment, and probably a lot of those don't even bother to read the comments at all (considering how many ask questions that have already been answered a dozen times already).
Getting so upset because something got 4 stars and you feel it was deserving of only 3 stars - is hardly deserving of so much investigation is it?
Voting is optional - and many voters probably just vote against whatever is the current opinion just because they are hoping to upset a few users, and get an entertaining reaction.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberHey there, Bubby, I hear what you're saying.....
...... and I believe most of us (at the end of the day) are smart enough to realize that people do things for the fun of it, as you say. The important thing is that we don't want you to get all worked up over our forum conversations about these matters.
For, as I always say to others......
The most important thing in life is health, family and friends....
All of this other stuff is merely "trivial, frivolous child's play."
Hey BuBBy, since all of your "B's" are capitalized, as in the "BBB", does this mean you actually work for the Australian BBB? LOL! Just kidding.
Cheers,
InasPosted 14 years ago # -
prs
Member"but when you see for a category a grand total of 100 votes, from perhaps 15,000 or 20,000 downloads"
I dont think that anyone visiting GOTD knows that the denominator is 15000-20000. What is easily visible is the glittering (being near the stars) numerator 100. Probably I am taking this too seriously. But downloading something on to the laptop is not a frivolous affair for me. This is a grand site and when I see an attempt at conning the ratings, I felt I must tell it aloud. The rating system does mean something to the site or otherwise why offer it at all?Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberHi PRS, I never meant to imply that downloading programs was a trivial matter. I was simply trying to make the point that people who manipulate and hack the voting/rating system are childish and immature - that's what I meant by triviality and frivolity.
I actually agree with you 100%, that the GOTD admin team should very much care about the validity/credibility (or lack thereof) of the voting/rating system. After all, if there is no credibility in these systems, then what is the point of having these voting/rating systems? It does not make any sense from a business standpoint.
Thus, if as BuBBy says, nobody pays much attention to the voting/rating processes, then GOTD should just get rid of them - no need to have them at all - but if GOTD insists on keeping these systems in place, then GOTD should make sure these rating/voting systems accurately serve their intended purpose - instead of them being simply a "big joke."
I hope my clarification helps.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Perhaps I could pass onto the GOTD team - if someone could explain an objective manner in which the "incorrect" votes can be identified and removed from the total.
Of course it would just be wrong to try to remove votes that disagree with your own opinion or experience as being incorrect. If there is a run of positive or negative votes this doesn't indicate dishonesty, as an alternate run of votes in the other direction might occur in the next hour.
I believe that some users are more likely to vote like sheep (not that sheep have much of a history at the ballot box). People like to feel like their vote is making a difference or that it counts for something. A Comment with -200 is probably more likely to subsequently be voted negative as subconsciously users like to feel they have made the "right choice" and will vote "with the crowd". The same applies to positive votes.
One comment last week (WinUtilities) was voted at over +500 which is unusually high for any positive or negative comment. If a comment appears to have momentum users are more likely to vote with it (give the snowball a push as it adds to an avalanche). The same applies to the Ashraf comment (on the same day) - even though people probably didn't feel there was anything particularly wrong with the comment - with such a high negative vote, it became easier (I suspect) to "do your bit" and give Ashraf a kick - just to see how low it can go.
You really cannot read the comments and the votes like some form of professional ratings review - indicating the quality of anything. It's the audience participation part of GOTD - The bikini round of the beauty pageant - a popularity contest for some, a random way to slap someone around the head who says something dumb without having to put it in writing and then not get it past moderation.
At the end of the day - there is nothing you can do. There are too many variations of user, and motives on how they vote, and a lack of consistency from one day to the next.
But if you know how to identify the "correct votes" and the votes that should be "removed" let me know.
Posted 14 years ago # -
MadDogTen
MemberIt would be better if people had to Login to vote and Rate comments. Making it where people have to make an account to vote or rate comments would significantly lower the amount of "fake" votes and Wrong scoring for the comments, as most people that take the time to make an account would give most likely give a "Real" vote. Yes, there would be a lot less number of votes overall, but on the votes that are given, they would be more accurate.
Posted 14 years ago # -
So you are saying that by registering an account users will vote differently? (perhaps because of the effort or time to register, or because of a lack of anonymity)
Currently user votes - registered or not - are anonymous. The votes are displayed only as a single number, and not a listing of each user and how they voted.
There is no technical reason why users could not register 2 or 20 user accounts.
However a user decides to vote, is a matter of personal opinion. Even registered users can vote against popular opinion - and this does not make their votes "wrong". In the event of the overall vote not reflecting the way that you may feel about the software or an individual comment - doesn't necessarily make either wrong or right.
It's not something that is broken and needs to be fixed, and if the vote gets it completely 'wrong', it doesn't really matter - everyone still has personal choice and can choose to listen to some comments and ignore others (despite what the votes may say).
Do you think that the users realise that their vote is "wrong", and only a vote that agrees with popular opinion is correct?
Until someone can demonstrate how the existing votes are inaccurate (assuming you have an accurate - or correct - baseline to compare them against) then there is still no proof that the existing votes are wrong.
You will never get rid of the 'wrong' or 'inaccurate' votes, because the votes are based on personal opinion - "Do You find this comment useful?" Perhaps I find it useful, but you did not. So who has the "accurate" vote?
Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberHi Bubby, I hope all is well with you today. Happy Sunday everyone.
Thank you (Bubby) for taking the time to listen to our concerns, as we all do care about the GOTD process and community.
To answer your very good question (and I can only speak for myself) - I believe that these unusual-looking number of negative and/or positive votes may be the work of a competing company or professional hacker, etc. (and not the work of regular, good-hearted GOTD voters.)
So, is there some way for GOTD admin folks to research this matter, to make the determination if, in fact, it is an "outside hacker"? If so, then there should be a way that GOTD can determine the IP address of such hackers, to block the IP address, so they cannot contribute or take any action on the GOTD site.
I believe this is a very objective, factual, and feasible solution and process to try to perhaps successfully resolve this matter - or, at least, eliminate this possibility.
I hope this suggestion helps and, again, thanks for taking the time to listen to us.
Best,
InasPosted 14 years ago # -
caulbox
MemberI was trying to refrain from further comment in this topic. It isn't possible to discuss anything substantial, without having to keep referring to users in their absence. Not really fair IMO, and could upset some. Personally, I honestly don't really care what goes on in the comment ratings. I usually find it more a source of amusement than anything sinister. However as it was myself who added to concerns, I suppose it's only fair that I try to make clear just why I thought something strange might have been happening yesterday.
At the risk of repeating myself, it was the regular, rapid, predictable and (most importantly) synchronised upgrading/downgrading of comments which aroused my suspicion. For example, in the early stages of the giveaway with only three comments listed, there was a period when refreshing the page every few seconds would predictably follow a pattern like:
-120 -122 -127 -130 -138
+114 +116 +121 +124 +132
-108 -110 -115 -118 -126The above figures are fictional, and the pattern was not always maintained with such perfect precision (unequivocal genuine ratings would of course also be registered). But you get the idea.
A similar thing was happening when I attempted to point live, to the ratings which Fubar was then being given. As well as the untypical fast flood of ratings in what is usually a calm time, I found it interesting that (when I posted) both of Fubar's comments on the GOTD page appeared once again to have established almost perfect harmony in the process of upgrading ratings. Although separated by some distance on the GOTD page, the comments (certainly for a little while) updated every few seconds in harmony, to reveal (again a fictional example) maybe 88 and 44, 91 and 47, 98 and 54, 100 and 56....
Please let me make clear that in no way do I suspect any of the aforementioned GOTD users as being anything but honourable. If mischief is afoot then I remain more concerned as to whether yesterday's observations within the ratings, and the resurfacing of gateway errors, might have any correlation.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Inas
MemberHi Caulbox, thanks for your follow-up explantion - and please rest assured (and, again, I can only speak for myself), but I completely understood (from the beginning) what you meant, and that you were in no way implying or saying that any GOTD users were anything but honorable. I hope that others also clearly understood this. As I said before, we all have GOTD's best interests at heart. Anyway, I am not going to comment anymore on this topic, unless someone directly asks me a question. Take care, all.
Inas
Posted 14 years ago #
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