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GOTD changing for the worse?

(33 posts) (10 voices)

Started 17 years ago by pauloparra
Latest reply from Hadeda

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pauloparra
Member

Dear GOTD,

I miss the old days when everyday I would wake up, check this site, decide if I like the software or not and installing it (or not) according to that. Now I have to grapple with companies selling old versions by requiring our emails only so they can spam us to get the actual version at a "discounted" price.

Then two days ago we got the Media re-sizer, not the professional edition, but the small one. I wouldn't complain about that if the software didn't have buttons that when pressed said "only available if you buy the pro version".

Today I am torn between saving big money by getting software that I need for my small business and providing my email and my company name to a company in Europe that may do the same as Inconmedia.

Life was simple then. Now it is not. In the old days, we got free software without having to give nobody any identification or email. We didn't get watered down versions of software as hooks for us to spend money. That was what was great about GOTD. Anonymity and zero expense.

One last thing, the last two times I posted complaining about the software 'hooks' and how it is changing GOTD, they took hours to get posted. In fact, they were posted at the end of the day, when nobody reads them anymore. So I am posting here in the forums which I know are not read so often. Maybe I will not get the 'your post is waiting moderation..' for hours. Maybe it wasn't done on purpose, but i would like to be able to state my opinion.

I like the idea if getting free software, but I fear that you started doing that just to put your foot on the door so to speak, so that another version of shareware is wide open in your site. I hope that this is not the case, that I am just being paranoid because I really really miss the old days.

I thank you for them and hope they come back.

-Mario

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

pauloparra,

I have also been spammed to purchase the upgrade, by Incomedia. If it continues it will be deleted from the server, and I will not download any future offerings from them. As it stands now, I would not consider purchasing software from them, based upon the spam factor alone.

Unless people adopt that approach, I envisage the spamming by developers will increase with time.

Incomedia and others - I would appreciate it if you would confine your advertising to on-site at GOTD, and keep it out of my mailbox.

Posted 17 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

IMHO this forum has "quality over quanity" posts. The discussions here go beyond "yippe-I'm first" Etc.
It hasn't been a week & I'm getting that junk mail from Icomedia.
They will forever be black-listed in my book. I don't care if they offer Windows Vista & John Madden 2007 for free. I would not trust them to empty a "Port-a-potty" !
I hope GOTD black lists them and sends a strong reprimind. GOTD really dropped the ball on this one. I sadly also have the feeling of a breach of trust.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I've been spammed also.

Well personally I will now strongly consider totally avoiding any giveaway that requires personal contact information to be supplied so software can be installed or evaluated. Unfortunately this means that I will also be unable to offer any assistance to any other users who have difficulties with such programs.

When a user supplies an email to receive a registration code, that is the ONLY reason the email address should be used. (once the code is sent out - the private email address should be discarded). Signing up to a marketing mailing list should be an optional and separate process. Users must have the ability to remove all personal data on record with the vendor on request.

The respect and use of the users email address should be paramount and something that is stressed to the Vendor by GOTD - otherwise GOTD should pull the giveaway and post a warning on the site to other users, that the company is misusing the personal information supplied.

When I install the software - I know where to go if I feel like making contact or purchasing. I will initiate contact myself.

TO BE FAIR though - this is something that was not under the control of GOTD - this was an abuse by the company offering the giveaway. But, an awareness of this issue in selecting future giveaways and how activation works (requiring the involvement of a third party) should wave red flags, as it should've with these giveaways.

Posted 17 years ago #
George
Member

I agree, they have spammed me too.

BuBBy I am not sure why you are not defending GOTD (as usual), but this time, I agree with you. Back in the old times, there was no moderation, spamming, reports of viruses, etc.

But nowadays, things seem to get worse. Some of this may not be GOTD's fault, but I personally didn't like the way we were made to activate using our email address!

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

@ George: BuBBy I am not sure why you are not defending GOTD (as usual)

That's a stupid thing to say. I do have my own opinions.

Posted 17 years ago #
George
Member

I now realize that. I thought you work for them and might get fired if you say something against them!

But if find it very paradoxical that you censored the whole topic on Censorship!

I mean, people who want to talk about cannot do so anymore! You just censored all people interested in the topic. You can fix the problem by opening it again. Anyways, why did you do that?

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I was about to say something to you I felt was "inappropriate".

Posted 17 years ago #
Bobby
Member

There is another way to look at the situation: growing pains. The GAOTD and GGAOTD sites are relatively new, and their popularity is exploding. As with any new venture, there will be moments of frustration.

My family's company has been in business 75 years; even with that solid history, there are hair-pulling aggravations. To expect a new venture to be problem free is naive, in my not-always-so-humble opinion. As participants in the venture, we can do our part by advertising the software service to others; we can also let developers know our opinions good or bad.

I, too, was spammed but had no trouble firing back a letter of my own to the guilty. Others may have more difficulty; perhaps Slava can develop a quick letter of objection and post it on this site? We can fill in the name of the offending developer, fill in comments and send. I reckon after a few dozen emails from the GAOTD forums, developers might get the message that unauthorized intrusion is unacceptable.

Just a thought ..

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

Nice thought BuBBy,

...but why not go one step further and make it a pre-condition to developers placing
software for download at GOTD, that they agree not to spam members.

As has been discussed in the forums, we all need to abide by the rules
in order to stay here. Why should the developers be exempt from similar conditions.

It would seem a more practical way to go, than having countless numbers of members
filling out forms and mailing them off to certain companies,...unless your evil mind is
thinking the best form of defense is attack, ie: Group spam right back at 'em.

Mwruhaahaahaaaa...I'll just set my e-mailer to auto-send every 15 seconds <evil grin>.

Posted 17 years ago #
pauloparra
Member

Hello,

Wolven, do you mean Nice thought to Bobby? Or are they both one and the same?

Anyway, I think that the folks at GAOTD were taken by surprise by Inconmedia just like the rest of us. It is nice to hear that they don't approve it either and that there is awareness about personal information being used the proper way.

Sending mass mailings to the developers is a bad idea I think. GAOTD should add in their agreement with the developers that the emails will not be used for spamming under the penalty of being added to a list, like Bobby suggested.

I think the email spamming comes together with whether we are receiving the latest and greatest product from the publishers or not. Having shareware type programs in GAOTD defeats the whole idea behind GAOTD.

If the software is not fully functional, then I believe that the publishers will find a way to get you to try to buy the full product even if they don't ask for personal info. The software may say something like "This feature is only available in the pro version which you can buy at this web site". So the program is not a giveaway anymore and we are back to square one.

I am glad to hear that GAOTD is not 'morphing' slowly once they got all the hits they wanted. I have a feeling that GAOTD is run by nice people that had a great idea and they have a bright future. There are even other websites that are trying to capitalize on their success, like the 15 minutes review guy who already has the 'your add here' link in his review site. I say good for them.

You guys have put my mind at ease. thank you very much.

-Mario

Posted 17 years ago #
Bobby
Member

Wolven, I reckon I was taking it for granted that the developers already agreed...in letter or spirit...not to spam as a condition of use, and the party-who-shall-remain-nameless had broken that trust. I DO like your idea of reverse spam ~insert evil wicked grin here~ Of course, I have been known to tear up junk snail mail and send it back to the offending parties in their thoughtfully-provided prepaid envelope ..including, of course, junk mail from several other companies.

Evil? Moi? ha...I aced that course years ago, young'n. NOW I'm certified in 'Lurk and Pounce' with instructor status in 'Creative Education' (aka: Gotcha).

Mario:

You are correct about hassles created by countless number of users sending junk mail from this site; I had forgotten the intellectually-challenged that might use the feature as a prank. I do like the idea of adding spam-oriented developers to a list, though, in order to alert users to their nefarious deeds. To answer your question: BuBBy and I are two different folks .. different genders even! I live in America's Out-Yonder and he lives near Australia's Outback, methinks.

As a side note: it chaps my hide when developers offer crippled software just to prod us into buying some overpriced product that isn't much better...and it makes them look cheap enough to skin a flea just for the hide and tallow.

Posted 17 years ago #
Theleecher
Member

If you suspect that an email may be misused, give 'em a spamgourmet or a mailinator.

I use mailinator for most cases (unless blocked) where I just need a return email... I probably used one here, actually, as I'm close to dumping at lest one of my existing accounts due to all the crap on it. NB. mailinator has some MAJOR weaknesses.
1. It is NOT secure, at all... no password!
2. Retention is quite short, so it is no use if confirmation will arrive later.

Spamgourmet is much better, for creating expiring addresses. I'd actully suggest, that if you ever have an account that is 100% clean, only ever give out redirectors, either self terminating ones, or ones that can be manually chopped. It is too easy for emails to leak, from reputable companies, to partners that may not be quite as careful, and so on.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I use http://www.sneakemail.com which has password security - an excellent management interface with support for folders of email accounts - manual expiry of accounts - can put accounts on hold without deleting them - support for email hold, forward, drop and bounce emails too.

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

pauloparra,
"Wolven, do you mean Nice thought to Bobby?"
Whaahaahaa, sorry - I did mean Bobby - lacking lots of sleep at the time.
Even so, if a member registers as BaBBy, I am giving up. lol!

Bobby
"Wolven, I reckon I was taking it for granted that the developers already agreed......"
I would have thought that were the case also. It would seem the common sense approach, but then, it is possibly best not to take too much for granted on the web <smile>.
Sorry for pulling a gender bender on you again (I believe that is the second time lol!)

I also use a different mail program for all non-friend, non-business contacts. If I get grief from a spammer, one click and they are gone. However, I did not want to mention that earlier as I am sure a user's comments were snipped at one stage for writing similar,..although that user's comments did also include other material which needed to be snipped.
Anyhow, I did not cut Incomedia off at the server as I wanted to see how long their spam would persist. It appears to have stopped now. If they appear again I'll deal with them.

Posted 17 years ago #
Face
Member

Guys

I agree with everyone - that asking for personal info and using it to spam us is an unforgiveable offense and should get a company blacklisted (in some sort of public way) but I have received no such spam or unwanted solicitations from either company. I specifically remember one had a box that you had to un-check to prevent being contacted (which IMO should have been - un-check TO receive), and I don't specifically remember doing so on the other one, but I'll bet it was there in some form or other, because, as I said, I have gotten nothing from either one, in spite of having to leave the address. Just be sure the crime has been committed before doling out the punishment.

Posted 17 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

Yes, any contacting other than to send a registration number should have been opt-in to be contacted further, instead of opt-out to not be contacted further.

I'm not ready to say GAOTD as a whole is changing for the worse though. So far it's only been a couple of programs that requested personal information and email addresses.

I don't recall which, but one of them included a warning of sorts from GAOTD. There were special installation instructions near the download link that detailed the need to go to the developer's site to enter information. Upon seeing that I chose not to download the program as it sounded suspicious, like a spam trap.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Yes, any contacting other than to send a registration number should have been opt-in to be contacted further, instead of opt-out to not be contacted further.

Just as in software design - when presented with a set of options - the default choice should always be the "safest" or the "least controversial". eg. An option to delete data or not - the default should be to avoid the deletion. To receive spam/unsolicited email the default should also be in the customers favor to not misuse their contact details.

Posted 17 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

"Just as in software design - when presented with a set of options - the default choice should always be the "safest" or the "least controversial"."

For sure they should!

Many times that's not the case though. After installing software it's always a good idea to first check the program's options and their default settings, before actually using the software. Too many times there's something that needs changing precisely because the default is not the "safe" choice.

This is especially important with any GAOTD software that may have an automatic update setting to "on" by default, as GOATD users are not entitled to updates. Also annoying is software that automatically tosses itself into Startup without asking or at least informing.

Posted 17 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

Let's get our torches & storm their walls ! That'll learn dem ! LOL
Maybe we could report them to "Homeland Security" ???? 8-)

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

I always ensure that mailing boxes are unchecked (Not to mention that my recent state of drowsiness may have missed that one). However, will 'unchecked' stop a spammer - NO!

Posted 17 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

"Homeland Security"

LOL! They'd probably tell us to stock up on duct tape and rolls of plastic, then implement a graduated color-based system for GAOTD ratings.

Just carefully consider any additional installation instructions and check out the linked developer's web site before downloading and installing anything. Scanning the comment section can also be helpful for advance warning of potential problems. Even if all that passes muster there's always the option to cancel installation if anything during the process rings an alarm bell in the brain. Skim the EULA and pay close attention to anything that seems unusual during installation or activation.

I have skipped a few programs from here precisely because some things hinted they just might be more trouble than the program's potential worth, regardless of it being "free". But then I don't completely trust anybody except Daddy, who has never steered me wrong. God bless his stand-up-guy heart and penchant for teaching his kids to be skeptics. Gonna go phone him right now. :)

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

LadyGodiva wrote:
"I have skipped a few programs from here precisely because some things hinted they just might be more trouble than the program's potential worth, regardless of it being "free"."

>> Take note, kiddies. Wise words indeed.

---------------

P.S.
Does one poor old Aboriginal, standing on the North-West coast of Australia with a handful of rocks and boomerangs, constitute Homeland Security?
I hope so - He's all we've got.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

@LadyGodiva - "Also annoying is software that automatically tosses itself into Startup without asking or at least informing."

WinPatrol will alert you to hijackings, malware attacks and critical changes made to your computer without your permission.
WinPatrol takes snapshot of your critical system resources and alerts you to any changes that may occur without your knowledge.
WinPatrol is free. Get it here.

Posted 17 years ago #
pauloparra
Member
Hello,

Like most of you, I hope, I like free software and can't stand the people
that whine without giving a good reason. Also, like most people, I don't like
being lied to. The front page of today's GAOYD states that

"Zoner Draw 4 is available for $49, but it will be free for our visitors as
a time-limited offer. You can download and install it now. Please note that
you have to install it before the Giveaway offer for Zoner Draw 4 is
over.

This statement, unfortunately is not true. Many veterans here will dismiss
my statement as nitpicking due to the fact that the company is giving a good
reason for not making available the latest version. To tell you the truth, I
know close to nothing about royalties. I think it has to do with making sure
that all the people that 'own' a portion of the money made by selling it does
in fact get it. They say the program is new or something like that. Dies that
mean that all the software and games we have been getting were old?
Everybody has accepted this reason and my little knowledge must rely on
your better judgment. I only want to remind everybody that the last time we
had a situation like this, that is, when we were given the value of a program
that could not even be bought, was when Inconmedia pulled that spamming
stunt.

I realize that this time the developers are not requesting e-mails and we
will not be spammed, but they come right out and say that we can buy the
full, latest program at a discount, thus defeating the giveaway part of
GAOTD. I don't doubt that they have royalty issues, but I also don't doubt
that those can be overcome. Otherwise, GAOTD would have never been able to
give latest versions of software.

I believe that right now there are some software company advertising
departments, who witnessed how we reacted when Inconmedia tried to use GAOTD
as a very efficient shareware outlet AND spam us, who are thinking ways to
avoid that response and still achieve the same effect. It seems that somebody
has been able to do it

Today it is a sad day for GAOTD. The publishers have found a way to post
false statements on the front page of GAOTD ( You really can't buy version 4
at all and the quoted price of $50 is for the version 5 which you can buy for
$25), and get away with it without anybody complaining too much.

All people that go to GAOTD should come out with the program they want at no
cost, period. That's the way it started and it is changing little by little.
If they can't post the last release because of royalties, then fix it so you
can or don't offer the product here. Now people can get version 5 for $25,
but that's not affecting the royalties at all, but it also make GAOTD not a
giveaway, just some other way to get publicity AND money at the same time.

There are people in the know that will explain to me why it has to be this
way or how all this works and can't be any other way, but I smell a rat. AVS
is giving us betas, we are getting spammed, we get old versions, the
registrations do not work, and now the royalties.

I don't what GAOTD's marketing plan is and I am nobody to question it, but
please, don't lie. The front page should say that the product offered today
is not free. If they want to get it, it will cost you $25. if you don't want
to spend the money, then you can get an older version for free. Is that so
hard?

I know I am being an idiot, I know that I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist
and stupid SOB who doesn't know his mouth form other orifices, but I still
don't like it. All program here should satisfy at least two conditions:
1. no personal information being asked
2. The value of the program offered and the program given is one and the
  same
If those conditions can't be met, then a true statement of what is being
offered should be made. I hope I am not banned for stating the obvious, but I
can't help myself.

-Mario
Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

The reason given by GOTD why Zoner 5 cannot be given away for free I believe is a fair one.

If Zoner has to legally pay a license fee/royalty to another company for each copy distributed - this would likely apply regardless whether the software was sold or given away.

At best the software could be given away for the cost of the royalty/license fee. Otherwise Zoner would lose (real) money for each copy given away. Nobody expects that.

The discount offered (using the coupon code) is still very good.

Posted 17 years ago #
pauloparra
Member

I agree with you Bubby, but that's no the point. If Zoner has to legally pay a license fee/royalty to another company for each copy distributed then they shouldn't be here. GAOTD has never been a discount software outlet and if it wants to become one, then they should change the statement on the front page so that is no misleading and leads people to believe they are getting something they are going to get something that they are not.

This is the second time they quote a price to software that can't be bought. Like I said be4,
" The front page should say that the product offered today
is not free. If they want to get it, it will cost you $25. if you don't want
to spend the money, then you can get an older version for free. Is that so
hard?

I agree the discount was good, but a discount is not a giveaway. If it is a dog call it a dog, don't try to disguise it as a cat and later say that if they want the cat, they have to pay for it. Maybe not the best analogy, but the best I can come up at 6:30 am (nothing to do with GAOTD). I'm going to bed. I am relieved that I don't have to spend 2 hours in GAOTD today. I am not interested in what they have today so I can sleep all day until midnight :)

I hope I am not pissing anybody off, I want to make clear that I am just giving my opinion. I am not an expert in economics, business practices or copyright law. I have advanced degrees in Math and Molecular Biology and I can program just about anything, if given the time.

-Mario

Posted 17 years ago #
Bobby
Member

Molecular Biology? A field that has captured my imagination for years! Unfortunately, when I went to school, women were offered two choices .. homemaker (I don't think so) or secretary; I wasn't allowed to be an archaeologist! Of course, that was when 'homeland security' of the 50's trained us to crawl under school desks for protection in the event of nuclear attack .. we weren't even offered duct tape and plastic to make a little fort, although we were allowed to watch events unfold outside the window! At least we have progressed to the duct-tape-and-plastic level of protection for my grandkids' generation ... ... ... (that noise you hear in the background is my screaming...auuuugh!).

But I digress ...

I still believe that GAotD is simply experiencing growing pains. As such, they may occasionally fall victim to unscrupulous vendors; that can happen to 'most any business venture. Having experienced such a violation of trust, I reckon Slava and the team will be more prepared to intercept future attempts.

The aforementioned unscruplous vendors are hereby put on notice; nothing like a posting on 'My Three Cents' to generate interest worldwide. The next sound they hear will the the balance in their banking accounts falling .. falling .. OUCH!

Posted 17 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

(Scratching my head).... What is Zoner doing distrubting something they donot "own"? Shouldn't the company that OWNS the software be the one GOTD deals with ? Is GOTD using wholesalers and middlemen without dealing with the source ?
IMHO there's great potential for "bait & switch". "Alawar" often uses "Big Fish Games" to distribute their games. "Alawar" offered some of their games to GOTD DIRECT with NO STRINGS attached. Maybe GOTD receives "click-thru" and referral commision ?
GOTD states everything offered is "100% Clean - No Adware ! - No Spyware !" . Using that "limited" standard "Iconmedia" and "Zoner" are within GOTD's "guarantee". Perhaps I am wrong to think that GOTD has a higher ethical standard. However disappointing that may be, it is their right. I am not entitled to an explaination for my faulty assumption.
I am the one holding on to my utopian illusion that GOTD willnot change as time passes and not always for the better. I have yet to define my ideal completely myself. I have trusted without question, what I really expected beyond no adware or spyware. This could be a benifical time to establish minimum "guidelines" for what "we" expect in black and white from GOTD and the businesses providing the software.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number 1 - Personal privacy is to be respected and not relinquished to download anything.
Number 2 - ...

Perhaps I am wrong to hold

Posted 17 years ago #
pauloparra
Member

Bobbby

I should tell you that I got a Bachelor's in MCB (I'm proud to say with honor and summa cum laude) from UofA in 92.
It is cool stuff, but nothing you can't learn from reading books. We use Alberts B., Bray D., Lewis J., Raff M., Roberts K. and Watson James D. Second edition. I am sure that by now they are in their 10th edition if it is still being published. I didn't like the research associated with it at all, so I went to applied math for my Masters and later for my Ph. D. in 2004 (in Tucson as well).

Back to the topic, I hope you are right about the growing pains, it is just that it was such a cute little baby, and I am afraid what it is going to be when it grows up!

I agree with you lwbjag, and I quote:
"Perhaps I am wrong to think that GOTD has a higher ethical standard. However disappointing that may be, it is their right. I am not entitled to an explanation for my faulty assumption."
That doesn't give them the right to give false statements on their front page. At some point people cared about that, now it looks like 'false advertising' doesn't mean much.

-Mario

Posted 17 years ago #

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