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Paragon System Backup waste of time

(23 posts) (9 voices)

Started 14 years ago by RunesageMagik
Latest reply from RunesageMagik

RunesageMagik
Member

Had an unknown icon appear on the system tray - greyed out, wouldn't react to right-clicks or even throw up alt text to identify itself. After a lot of wasted searching around, finally determined it was from the newly installed Paragon System Backup.

So I tried to launch the software directly from the exe and received a pop up error (dear Paragon programmers... THANKS SO MUCH for not making error messages easily copyable via CTRL + C, cause I just LOVE having to transcribe cryptic error messages manually)

"Operation Failed: Paragon System Backup could not be started because some product that uses the HARD DISK ENGINE must be already running. Please close that program and try again."

WTF? How is the average user supposed to know what is meant by their term "hard disk engine" and how the bloody H would the average user know how to determine WHICH program might be running/accessing it????

As it stands, this software is absolutely useless. Not the first time I have run into problems with Paragon (it was their Partition software that toasted my old hard drive... so no more Paragon for me.)

Curiously enough, Hostsman and Hostsman server icons are also greyed out, but that seems to be due to this crappy VISTA OS and how MSFT throws up umpteen roadblocks with their idiotic Administrator controls scheme. Thankfully, I'm seeing forums addressing that problem as many others are having the same issue. (being forced to manually enable Hostsman)

I'd love to see the entire Vista programming team left on a deserted island with no food and water... and their only way to prevent starvation is buried somewhere in their byzantine knowledge base. :-)

Posted 14 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Ahhh Runesage, it's great to have you back..... ;)

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

Yeah. it told me to run out and get at least a 400 gig drive to back up on. riiight.

Uninstalling it is interesting too- I should have watched closer and not rebooted before finding all the bits it installs. Revo uninstaller used, and it *still* started at the next system boot. gack.

Posted 14 years ago #
RunesageMagik
Member

googgotd I hadn't planned on posting a followup rant but you're right, the actual uninstall process was the sloppiest I've encountered since programmers began inserting those uninstall executable subroutines that almost invariably leave bits and pieces behind because programmers are LAZY. Revo couldn't even find the two Paragon programs on my machine! And until I went into my admin account, I couldn't find the uninstall subroutine either.

Their uninstaller removed several of the modules but balked at the last one (can't recall the name... dhv or dba or something, plus all it's little playmates) And of course, Vista's insane "you don't have permission" pop up kept preventing me from removing those even via my admin account (don't get me started on MSFT's idiotic, overly complex UAC folly) until I drilled down and deleted them one by one from the lowest subfolder/filename up.

I cannot begin to imagine what crap is left behind or what I might have screwed up in Registry by doing that. I'll have to do a thorough analysis/cleaning if I can remember which program does that on this machine. I no longer have Registry Mechanic, or whatever the one was that used to work well on XP.

Thus concludes today's followup rant on Paragon. Never again will it darken my door.

Posted 14 years ago #
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked

@RunesageMagik: I can imagine that the files left behind are services and/or drivers. If they are services, I can't imagine why it won't be stopped first. And regarding the "you don't have permission" error, it could very well be a corrupted entry in the file table. Happened to me a few times.

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

dbhservice.exe and hotcore3.sys on XP were my problems- plus it retargets some of the system files to it's installation directory (one of the 'install directories'- the one the uninstall listed was in R:\program files, but I had aimed the install at X:\program files, which was where it was starting from post-uninstall) alas, manual removal from the registry launched XP into a reboot autocycle with a flash of blue screen.

like an idiot I forgot to set a restore point.

I did export all the keys I deleted to .reg files, I'm now trying to learn how to reinsert them from a different boot. aargh. anyone have a reasonably simple method?

Posted 14 years ago #
BenSando
Member

I'm disappointed too !

It calls itself Paragon System Backup but the CD only contains a restore utility.

Thanks heaven that I still got the Drive BackUp 10 from Nov, 2009
<smile>

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

yeah me too, though it has limitations. still scheming on how to reimport the reg keys with least effort and no error possibility.

Posted 14 years ago #
RunesageMagik
Member

It gets better! (not)

Got an email informing me that one of Paragon's crack team of support specialists had answered my request. (how many days after I had to manually delete the thing?)

So I click the link, log on and..... Internal Server Error

I'm reminded of Keystone Kops, or the US Congress.

Posted 14 years ago #
delenn13
Minbari Ambassador

Just tweeted this post to Paragon, Runemeister. I didn't dl since I had Paragon Drive Backup™ 9 Professional. I don't trust partitions; I have seen my husband crash his PC 3 times with them. And I am not fond of snapshot programs and I think that was what that was.

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

Yep, Paragon System Backup is a whole-system snapshot program- a dumb one.

I *like* partitions- (I have 22 of them- and you *cannot* use a HDD without at least one!) it's sure a *lot* easier to have more than one OS on one machine with less chance of one getting lunched and taking the other(s) down- but moving them to another drive of a different geometry (and size) is a non-trivial chore. One I haven't mastered yet.

I finally remembered that I *did* do a jackleg 'hard' restore point in trying, though- I had made a copy of my E:\ partition (second partition on HDD 0, the first of the 2 80 gig PATA drives) on my O:\ partition- (third partition on HDD 2, my SATA 500 gig.)

At the time I was trying (and failing- AGAIN) to get the operating systems moved and booting using just the half-terabyte SATA drive using Paragon Partition Master and my old copy of Ghost Personal Edition. Or possibly Paragon Drive Backup- I don't recall.

I simply copied the registry files (using my win2k dual-boot on C:) from O:\windows\system32\config down to the same place on E:\, and that took the registry back to before I tried hand-removing Paragon System Backup- booted right up.

the only major program I've had to reinstall was Online Armor++, which would have been simple had I not gotten to playing around with blacklists without looking at just exactly which sites were in the ones I used. Oops.

As soon as possible, goodbye Paragon System Backup, and good riddance. I have online armor++ blocking it from starting with windows now. Which is good enough for now.

I think I'll try Revo Uninstaller in deep-search mode to see if that works.

@ Delenn13- feel free to tweet this to Paragon- I simply refuse to get any of the social networks stuck to me. Facebook, Twitter, MySpace- no way I'm going to come any closer to 'em than I have to.

Posted 14 years ago #
ams
Member

I noticed that new versions of Paragon software tools started creating Uninstall icon in Start - Program - Paragon Product folder. Looks like they heard your complaints. =)
Imho System Backup is not a tool for advanced users, this is mostly for housewives who have laptop or desktop know nothing about its HDD structure.
They need the data, music, mails etc to be saved and once crap happens - easily recover.
My favorite is Drive Backup 10 Pro with rich functionality for all cases that could take place with my laptop.
BTW, Online Armor is blocking Paragon driver so should be set into exceptions list. I contacted Online Armor tech stuff but they never did me answer. Too smuggy to answer to client request????

Posted 14 years ago #
ams
Member

RunesageMagik, the message sounds HDM engine but not Hard Disk Engine. I received it when Drive Backup 10 was started under one account and tried to run System Backup under another account. HDM is Hard Disk Manager by Paragon. I think they use the same engine for all of their products thus it prevents you double running the same engine.

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

if you want to set online armor++ to allow paragon's dbhservice.exe and hotcore3.sys to load use the start-up manager (auto-runs? SIC) to allow them, not a blanket permission- safer.

Posted 14 years ago #
Buzz
Member

Quote: "Paragon System Backup waste of time". Agree.

Posted 14 years ago #
RunesageMagik
Member

delenn - Never tweeted anything myself, nor have I become entangled in the whole Facebook social exhibitionism/voyeurism phenom. Should I have shorted Paragon stock just before you tweeted? :-)

ams - Since I had to transcribe from the pop up because the idiot programmers don't allow copy/paste, it's possible my brain omitted the word MANAGER from the phrase Hard Disk Engine. Likely that wouldn't have made things clearer to me since I'd never encountered the phrase before and I don't use other Paragon software. There'd better not be a latent "Manager" secreted on my system! Time for some investigational reg scanning. Thanks. (if you know of a registry key or file name other than - hard disk manager engine - to look for, do be kind enough to post it here)

Posted 14 years ago #
delenn13
Minbari Ambassador

Sorry somehow I missed this(must be the meds). I tweeted again...this time to @ParagonSoftware. The last time I tweeted to @ParagonAmerica. I know they saw the tweet because they said something to the effect..Glad you are happy with our product. DUH????

Also said that you guys don't tweet or use FB; to pls help in the forum. Let's see how this plays out now.

Posted 14 years ago #
delenn13
Minbari Ambassador

I got an answer from @ParagonSoftware on Twitter and I filled out a support ticket. So hopefully help is on it's way.

You both have helped me so.....

Posted 14 years ago #
delenn13
Minbari Ambassador

I got an answer. Not sure if this is what you want to hear or not.

If installation is corrupted, then it can't be completely uninstalled with help of Windows CleanUp tool: http://kb.paragon-software.com/paragon/include/templ/object2.jsp?objId=6698

If it was uninstalled, but some services left (which is weird), then they can run our installation again, install the product (no need to create Backup Capsule), then run installation file again, and tell it to uninstall the product. Correct uninstall should clean the system.

Took me 2 "emails" to get that answer. Keeping the ticket open until I hear again from you guys.

I don't know if Paragon corporate policy is..To answer all queries on their turf or not. But I would have had a better impression of Paragon if they had ventured into the forum and answered the post.

I know Returnil had an exclusive freebie in another forum and there was a problem with the install and an employee came into the forum to diagnosis and fix the problem. Now that is a company I would be happy to use/buy.

Posted 14 years ago #
Robert
StrayCat

@Delenn
Thanks for your continuing efforts to get a plausible explanation from Paragon.

Maybe running regedt32 (Regedit) ,and deleting the service entry under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Services" might help
(reboot required)

Some services however require full administrator control in regedt32 (regedit) ,before they can be deleted.For these you will have to right click on the ‘service’ , go to permissions and grant the administrator full control.

Looking at the keys, take a note of what files the service is using and maybe delete (some of) them manually.

Posted 14 years ago #
goodgotd
Member

I would strongly recommend *not* manually deleting keys related to the Paragon System Backup package- I tried that and flat hammered my winXPsp3 installation, to the point that I couldn't even get safe mode to boot. Last known good was useless, and of course restore points were inaccessible. I finally managed to mostly repair the damage using my win2k dual-boot as a springboard to hand-restore stuff back to where the PSB package was back where it had been.

I've got the services locked down from starting, but it appears that PSB points some system files to it's install directory. Real Bad News.

I'll look at the logistics of trying the microsoft MSI cleanup utility versus re-install/uninstall, but I'm gonna make triple backups of all sorts of things first. My first try was a disaster.

Posted 14 years ago #
delenn13
Minbari Ambassador

Sorry to hear that, Goody.

Hope you get it straighten out soon.

I haven't seen or heard from The RuneMeister. Maybe I should send him an Admiral Seed to get his attention.

Posted 14 years ago #
RunesageMagik
Member

Hi, all. Sorry, I haven't been following any threads of late. Manually removed what I could of Paragon long ago and all's quiet on the western digital. (Amusingly, I'm still receiving love notes from Paragon saying they've finally replied to my ticket, to which my brain responds with Rhett's line in Gone with the Wind)

I shall now bill delenn for a keyboard cleaning... cause milk shot out my nose upon reading the suggestion that a month after this folly drew to a close, they think I should reinstall said useless program and try uninstalling by dropping in another monkeywrench. That's akin to running into a brickwall, then backing up and ramming it again just to make sure the radiator's completely tangled up in the fan and timing belt before heading off on a motor tour across Death Valley.

Posted 14 years ago #

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