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Technical questions

(27 posts) (8 voices)

Started 14 years ago by Terri218
Latest reply from copmom

Terri218
Member

I'm sure one of you will know the answer to this but it has me baffled.

I downloaded a game which kept freezing. I uninstalled it and reinstalled it but it still froze at the same point so to see if the problem was with the game itself, I downloaded a 60 minute trial from a competing game site. I know for a fact that they are not the same company because they are bitter rivals (unless that's just some marketing ploy). I was really surprised when I opened the trial to see that it had my name and options already entered and started at the point where the other version had frozen. The free trial was not frozen and it let me get to the next level. I closed it and opened the frozen one and that one was now past the frozen point. I don't understand how a game downloaded from two different sources can be linked together like that. In the past I have downloaded a free trial of the same game from different sites and had no problem playing them each.

Can someone please explain how this works.

Thanks.

Posted 14 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Despite downloading from another site/company - most games are developed by the same company and licensed/sold by others. So despite downloading the game "Fluffy Bunnies Flaming Death" (for example) from company A - it is also sold by company B and company C. And the game was developed/written by none of these companies but by a company called "Nerds with Issues" who will let other companies sell the game on their behalf (for a commission).

When you installed a fresh copy over the first install - you obviously unwittingly fixed whatever problems had occurred with the first install.

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Actually, Terri, it's the other way around. The amount of changes these distributors make are quite small, mainly additions. Sometimes they just do something like what GOTDs setup program does. That type of program is called a "wrapper", and it sort of just encases the software, to make it execute the GOTD activation routine before the installer actually starts. The changes these distributors make, if they do something like putting in a "game center", are on the outside. They would have to get special permission to change the developer's source code, and doing that could mess up the game, so they just make their changes on the outside, or, you could say, around the edges.

What likely happened to you was that your first download may have been damaged/corrupted and that's why it froze. The second download contained a good copy of the damaged sections and so fixed the problem. Either that or the 2nd download was a slightly newer version which addressed a bug which caused your program to freeze in the firstplace. Basically, I agree with Bubby. He was posting while I was writing.

In any case, glad it's now working for you.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

I still don't understand how I can play in one game and have my progress reflected in the other game that I haven't played.

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Because, if we're understanding you right and it's the same game, all the core files are the same. In fact, at the risk of being too obvious, game progress is stored in files that are created only after you start to play. New files with your option settings and progress are created independent of the installation. When you restarted the first version it probably looked and saw the file which contained the progress from the 2nd version. In fact, the 2nd version may have overwritten some of the files created by the first version. Sometimes, these files are stored in a section in XP called "Common Files" so that any version of the program can read them. In Vista, these files are often placed in sections called "App Data" and/or "Program Data". A lot of folks don't realize that all the files placed in your computer by an installer, and by the program afterwards, don't always just go in the programs folder. So even if you have two program folders, there could be overlap of function. Hope that makes it clearer.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

I knew you would know. Thanks.

Now it will be interesting to see if my playtime in the first version is deducted from the 60 mins. in the other version.

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Yes, it would. I'd be interested in knowing. But I'd bet against it, as the time counting function is very likely a unique section added to the demo. You should know that you're question was partly answered by one of the less sophisticated folks here. Just think if you get a chance to tap into some of the real brain power here. Like Bubby's! Still, glad to help. :) In fact, I said something partly wrong. Vista has some "Common Files" folders, too. App Data/Program Data zre slighty different, but there are situations were they could also apply.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

As far as I'm concerned, you're ALL genuises. You've given me great information and saved me much frustration. Now if you could just tell me where all the hidden objects are in every game... LOL.

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Actually, we've got some great gamemaster's that probably could. So, if you get stuck.... ;)

Posted 14 years ago #
aRenegade
Member

You asked how a game downloaded from two different sources can be linked together like that? Easy, they’re more than likely sharing a DLL, short for Dynamic Link Library, a library of executable functions or data that can be used by a Windows application. Typically, a DLL provides one or more particular functions and a program accesses the functions by creating either a static or dynamic link to the DLL. A static link remains constant during program execution while a dynamic link is created by the program as needed. DLLs can also contain just data. DLL files usually end with the extension .dll,.exe., drv, or .fon.

A DLL can be used by several applications at the same time. Some DLLs are provided with the Windows operating system and available for any Windows application. Other DLLs are written for a particular application and are loaded with the application. Now aren’t you glad you asked? ;)

Posted 14 years ago #
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked

I'd like to tidy up a couple explanations.
Like Watcher said in his 2nd post, they may share the same save/config data. However, it's most likely either in the game's directory, or your user profile (C:\Documents and Settings\you or C:\Users\you).

So, my explanation is:
The game freezing in the first download but not freezing in the second download may be caused by either a bug or a corrupted save file or corrupted game executable. The second download probably fixed the bug or corrected the save, allowing you to continue. How it knows where your game saves are, it's probably somewhere in your user profile, and as both games have very similar cores, they both save to the same place.

Wrappers are most likely customized with each distributor. Distributor A will most likely not use the same wrapper system as Distributor B. However, the program that they wrap is the same game, with minor differences if different versions. I don't think DLLs play too big a role in this case as most games don't install shared DLLs except for runtime libraries, and they don't usually contain static game save locations.

Sources: I have been poking around with programs for over 6 years...

Posted 14 years ago #
aRenegade
Member

Hello GMMan - "Sources: I have been poking around with programs for over 6 years..."

OOOOOYYY, Am I suppose to be impressed? Cry out to the heavens "I'm Not Worthy!"

I don't think so...lol :)))

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

Can I uninstall the demo one without ruining the first one that's already on my computer?

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Well, I don't want to get in the middle of a dispute, but I think you folks are not as far apart as you think, Renegade. I could quibble here, but it might be better to just bury the hatchet. The point we're all trying to make to Terri, whether or not we agree on all the details, is that the two versions of the program are sharing files. That's what's accounting for the dual behavior. Both of you are adding clarity to this, and I, myself, wasn't trying to give the "definitive" answer, but to give a concrete example or two. I think you've both added some more concrete examples and Terri, I hope, has a better feel for it now. I respect both of your posts, even if I don't agree on every detail, either. So what? We've all tried to help and I hope we all have. Terri seems happier. :)

As to your latest question, Terri, my view is: it's a gamble, but one you're likely safe in taking. Certainly, if you can download the first game again, just in case, go ahead uninstall. I don't see where you have anything to lose. Theoretically, it really depends on how well the demo's uninstaller is written, and uninstallers are often found to be lacking. Since we know these two are already linked, there's a very reasonable chance that the uninstaller will delete something critical. A sophisticated uninstaller would sense the link between the two installs and give you the option of not uninstalling critical shared files. But many people here can tell you their "unsophisticated", to put it politely, uninstaller stories. However, if you can re-download both versions of the game, then you can eventually fix it, anyway. If your full version is crippled by the uninstall, you can re-download it and this time you may get an install that works right out of the box. And if it doesn't, you can always reinstall the demo and go back to the way you are now. If you're willing to take the time, it's likely a no lose situation. Let us know.

Posted 14 years ago #
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked

Terri, I'd take a bit of caution, as if the first installer created a directory for the saves, it might delete the directory with all the saves in it. I'd backup the saves first. I'd guess that it's under C:\Documents and Settings\you\Local Settings\Application Data\game-developer\gamename or C:\Documents and Settings\you\Application Data\game-developer\gamename. It could be also under My Documents (games like Ghost in the Sheet). However, most games create the save directory after they are launched for the first time, and most installers won't delete anything that itself didn't create.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

I think I'll just wait to get through the whole game and then unless I really love it and want to play it again, I'll uninstall both of them.

Thank all of you for your help.

Posted 14 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

There's also registry entries that save any changes made to a game via the options menu. Progress can also be saved there.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

I just checked my uninstall drop down box and there are two versions listed so I guess uninstalling one won't uninstall the other (I hope). Interestingly they are a slightly different size but the larger one is probably the free trial since they have to include the timer.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

Just in case anyone is still interested in this - playing in the first version does not effect the time left in the demo and the progress of the two versions is still linked.

Posted 14 years ago #
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked

BTW, what game is this? Throughout the whole topic it has only been referred to as "the game."

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

It was the free game from Gamehouse yesterday: The Lost Cases of Sherlock Holmes. Gamehouse actually responded to my question but said they don't support the free games. They then went on to list all the things that could be wrong with my computer. Interesting that the other version worked fine if all these things were because of my computer. (Reminds me of how Big Fish Games always tells me I need to change my search engine and many other things on my computer just to get their games to play. I'm not that obsessed with playing their games thank you very much.) Oh well you get what you pay for.

BTW it seems to be working fine now and I'm more than halfway finished.

Posted 14 years ago #
watcher13
Member

Yeah, Terri. I see that a lot. Generally speaking, no one wants to admit that there's a bug with their software unless they have to. It's ALWAYS your fault, with some. Until they release the new debugged version, which is the first time they admit it had a bug in the first place. Meanwhile, you can end up causing yourself computer problems, or at least inconvieniences, with their suggestions. Then it turns out that it's really been on their side all along. They don't realize that they end up losing customers that way.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

The first time Big Fish Games told me I should install Mozilla because that seems to work the best with their games, my reaction was "What about the other 99.9% of the sites I visit that work fine with what I have now?" Like I'm really going to change my whole computer to accomodate ONE site. Get real.

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

Interesting, I just checked the BFG forum for this game and several other people have had exactly the same problem at the same point. But of course it's MY computer settings right? Come on.

Posted 14 years ago #
RosnSC
Member

Terri, that sounds strange; have never had BFG tell me I needed to use a particular browser.

Sue

Posted 14 years ago #
Terri218
Member

OK just to complete the story - I finished the game and uninstalled the BFG demo. Then out of curiosity I played the first version again and guess what - it froze at exactly the same point. I have now uninstalled the first version also. Glad I didn't like it that much and that I didn't pay for it.

Posted 14 years ago #
copmom
Member

I'm laughing at that last sentence Terri. There are SO many games I've played that I've had the same thought.. that I was glad I didn't pay any money for it!!

Posted 14 years ago #

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