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GAOTD - and Kaspersky bug

(27 posts) (3 voices)

Started 8 years ago by Argonaut
Latest reply from Argonaut

Argonaut
Member

Since Oct 2014 I have been unable to install any GAOTD offers. Downloads OK but fails on install (corrupt file)

After many many Hrs investigating (including fully OS reload) it was 'viewed here' that this was a Kaspersky issue.
I rasied bug with Kaspersky and chased every month .......... today they have formally responded:

"As per the latest information we received from our Moscow HQ, this issue is not on our side, but rather on the giveaway's side [Themida (X-Protector) is preventing installation]. "

So the issue is back with GAOTD ..... are you able to help resolve this.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

Thanks for following it up with Kaspersky. Unfortunately, if Kaspersky's answer is both technically and literally correct "Themida (X-Protector) is preventing installation" then I don't think that GOTD can do anything.

From the Thermida website:

Software protectors where created to keep an attacker from directly inspecting or modifying a compiled application. A software protector is like a shield that keeps an application encrypted and protected against possible attacks. When a protected application is going to be run by the operating system, the software protector will first take control of the CPU and check for possible cracking tools (dissemblers or de-compilers) that may be running on the system. If everything is safe the software protector will proceed to decrypting the protected application and giving it the control of the CPU to be executed as normal.

So, again, if Kaspersky's answer is both technically and literally correct (it's the right diagnosis and it means exactly what it says without any loss/addition in translation) then you've got something running on your system that the wrapper sees as a potential "cracking tool".

That seems iffy to me given how the problem developed. I'd test the answer by first trying a GOTD installation via "safe mode with networking" and, if that worked, uninstall the program and test again with a mostly normal boot after disabling all Kaspersky entries at startup via Autoruns. The "safe mode with networking" disables Kaspersky and other stuff, the second just disables Kaspersky. If the response you got is correct then you should be able to install via "safe mode with networking" because that's the normal workaround but you won't be able to install with a (normal boot - Kaspersky) because of something that loads in a normal boot that doesn't load in a safe boot.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

The other comment in the reply from Kaspersky ...was that this is not an issue in Windows10.

BTW ... I did a lot of testing. Even a fully clean OS install. Downloads install OK, then as soon as Kaspersky installed download 'install' failed.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

Given that, I think Kaspersky is really saying "we don't know what the problem is".

The first reports of trouble coincided with the release of Windows 8.1. It's seems pretty clear that Microsoft made some significant, and possibly unintended, changes in the transition from Windows 8 to 8.1 that negatively impacted some people. Given the very low number of "problem" systems it still seems like its a (Kaspersky + Feb/Mar/Apr 2014 Windows Update + Installed Hardware/Software) problem. It could be that all impacted systems have the same motherboard, the same controller, the same printer driver or the same random piece of software.

Was the fresh install of the OS that failed with Kaspersky with or without your software installed? Can you isolate the problem down to hardware and, if so, can you check for BIOS updates and newer drivers for the various components?

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

One other thing, kbupdate.info lists the various MS updates by OS/product and then by release date. The Windows 8 January 2014 updates are at the link and you can navigate to the other months from there.

Check the list to see which of the released updates are actually installed on your system. I'd uninstall April to January a month at a time and test the GOTD installation along the way. Maybe you can isolate a problem update.

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

Purely FWIW, I like Kaspersky's web site at securelist.com. Speaking solely as a everyday consumer, I don't necessarily like Kaspersky products. There's no tech bias or loyalty or anything like that attached, but I'm looking at it here the same way I purchased an electric kettle a couple of weeks ago, where I compared prices, designs, features, & customer reviews.

Where there's a choice, I frankly don't see any compelling reason to buy it, especially in light of potential US regs that might curtail import/export of anything that might be security related [it's in the comment phase, so we'll see]. There's also the potential for some sort of embargo if the war of words between the US & Russia escalates.

Much of the same buying logic could be applied for several other brands of security software, so I find myself wondering why sometimes people seem to willingly cause themselves aggravation, by buying something that a bit of research could have suggested wasn't a great choice.

--------

"As per the latest information we received from our Moscow HQ, this issue is not on our side, but rather on the giveaway's side [Themida (X-Protector) is preventing installation]. "

This is just me, but I take that as similar to saying: "I'm a vegan, I don't eat beef, so when I go to McDonalds it's their fault that they make me upset by serving it." That doesn't make a lot of sense because McDonalds serves burgers -- that's what they do -- so if serving beef bothers you, Don't Go There.

Kaspersky's role is to prevent mal-ware from infesting your Windows device while you're using it. It's not to protect you when it's off, or without any software installed, but when and as you use your Windows device normally. But Kaspersky wants you to limit what legitimate software you run -- if they break something, it's your fault because you ran something that their software breaks. What do they expect their customers to do? Not run software? Only run software from some unpublished list of approved apps? Running software is what their customers do -- Deal With It Kaspersky, or get out of the marketplace.

Alas vastly incompetent support, & that's what's Kaspersky has given you, is all too common today when support & product engineering take a back seat to anything that puts more cash in their bank accounts for far less time, effort, & expense, even if it's only short-term. The consumer is left with DIY support.

If you want, post what OS you're using, e.g. win7 HP or pro or ult, 32 or 64, or win8.1 home or pro, 32 or 64, or win10 etc... Same for the version of Kaspersky. It might not be immediately, but I'll see if I can duplicate it in a VM. That might or might not eliminate some of the variables &/or suspects.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

OK ..This is not W8 this is W7, never installed 8 or 8.1
( and I'll wait a while before installing W10)
All worked fine until around Oct 2014

All other downloads work fine, only an issue with GAOTD

I don't buy Kaspersky - I get it for free for the 3 PCs at home

The specs of my PC as requested.

W7 Ultimate 64 bit (build 7601: sp1 )
Kaspersky is Kaspersky Internet Security 15.0.2.361

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

Then I'd try this page Windows 7 articles, fixes and updates - October 2014, locate and uninstall the updates for October, test, and repeat for September and August as needed using the links to those months on the page.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

I have done that .... did a full clean install, installed KIS ... and it failed

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

When you say you "did a full clean install, installed KIS ... and it failed" I take that to mean you installed from your disk, brought the system up to date with all applicable updates, tested the GOTD installation, it worked fine, installed KIS and the GOTD installation then failed.

Why I'm saying is test KIS without a fully up to date system by removing the Aug-Oct updates one month at a time. If you have (KIS + Windows Update + Hardware/software) = Failure then removing an update might resolve the problem. Your system worked up to a certain date and then it quit working because (a) KIS changed or (b) you installed a MS update or (c) you installed some program that caused the problem or (D) all of the preceding.

Even though you're running Windows 7 I think the cause is Windows 8.1 because the changes MS makes to one OS filter down to other systems. If you read the update descriptions you'll find that many take the form of "to fix problems with certain computers running certain programs". If you're not running those certain programs then you don't need the update BUT if you have one of the certain computer's hardware then you get the update anyway. The update cycle is: MS releases an update to fix A, then they release B to fix the problems A caused; then they release C to fix problems B caused; then you quickly run out of letters.

The real problem is that there isn't any new software. It's all from the mid-80's with new subroutines tossed in to "make it work". It's full of old hardware and software calls that go nowhere because it's too much trouble to remove them and, besides, they might be needed later. It's all patches on top of patched patches. Except, sometimes those calls do go somewhere and then you've got a problem. The only saving grace is that Skynet will build itself from that flawed DNA.

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

"The real problem is that there isn't any new software..."

If I might take the liberty to expand on this, in case it helps anyone...

Programming is like writing an encyclopedia [for those of us old enough to remember encyclopedias]. You want to include something about Napoleon, you go to the library, read about Napoleon, & include a summary of what you read. You want to open a window for your program on-screen, you either look up [& likely copy/paste] the code, or the software you're using has a more automatic feature. The encyclopedia author doesn't perform original research on Napoleon -- the coder doesn't figure out how to do what's already well known.

OK, so let's expand the programming example to a fairly simple app like the common GOTD video converter. It uses ffmpeg, which is a huge bank of code that's been accumulated, updated, & contributed to for years by loads of different people. One person might have come up with code to perform one function, 2 or 3 or a dozen people may have helped refine that code, & then it sits there as part of this code bank, used but forgotten.

So a developer or team figures out how to program an app that acts as an interface to ffmpeg. It uses standard methods to open your video, & standard methods to feed that video to ffmpeg, all most likely without a deep understanding of ffmpeg's code base, because that wouldn't be needed. So someone else says: "Aha, that's how you did that", & they program their own version -- whether they have access to & copy/paste the exact code is unimportant.

Then someone figured out how to include another code bank, this time for QT, to help with video handling before ffmpeg gets involved. Everything I said about the ffmpeg code bank applies, & like the basic video converter, methods are copied, re-used intact or with likely slight modifications.

Now, is it possible that some forgotten code buried in the ffmpeg code bank reacts with something in the QT bank when & if a certain method of using them is combined with a certain type of video? Most certainly. Is it predictable? Only to the extent that such things occur -- auditing a code bank can be an immense undertaking, & is not something most average developers &/or coders would endure.

Now, amplify any complexity in that video converter by several orders of magnitude -- that's what you get when you have more complex software that's been developed for years, with banks of code that have existed from the beginning, modified & added to by people no longer employed there using tools that haven't been available for years, to fix problems or add features that haven't mattered for just as long.

That's how many of the latest, big security scares, e.g. Heartbleed, or the more recent Android bug(s), came to be. But those are relatively easy -- they know what's happening & can back trace why. What if you have one or more things buried in a Kaspersky code bank that interact with one or more things buried in a Windows code bank, but only under a certain set of circumstances? Making it even more complicated, the Microsoft programmers can't look at the Kaspersky code, & vice versa, if either was willing to spend maybe unlimited resources on trying to track it down.

Obviously you yourself couldn't perform any analysis anything like that. What you can do is use perseverance together with common sense... Your kid complains of a belly ache & you find a drawer full of empty candy wrappers, that's a clue. You install a Windows [or other software] update & something breaks, that's a clue. The perseverance comes into play when you take the time to find out that those empty wrappers were from Xmas last year, or that that latest update is actually reacting with an update performed much earlier, but you didn't detect the problem at the time.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

Having carried out a full clean install and then found as soon as I installed KIS that GAOTD failed .... I don't see how de-installing an Oct update will help, as the install disk precedes that date. ?

In any event I will be upgrading to W10 at some point .. in next few months (once they have carried out the first burst of patches.)
If it works then, then fine. :-)

I know someone posted that I should create a VM and run the GAOTD inside that environment, but I'm not at IT specialist ... just a user.
If I was a real geek, guess I'd be running LINUX anyway.

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

Having carried out a full clean install and then found as soon as I installed KIS that GAOTD failed .... I don't see how de-installing an Oct update will help, as the install disk precedes that date. ?

NOT arguing your point, but answering the question. Kaspersky doesn't, or shouldn't anyway, install whatever version from disc -- the reason is that the software that they have for download any given morning may be fully updated [not just pattern files] that evening. The Bitdefender I use checks for updates hourly, & McAfee does similar, though maybe not as often. SO really with security software, unless you prevent it from going online, it's hard if/when possible to use an older version.

Windows is another matter entirely, at least prior to 10. Is one of the updates at fault? Don't know, but because you can opt out of &/or uninstall Windows updates, it's possible to find out. Whether anyone wants to bother or not, that's their choice.

I know someone posted that I should create a VM and run the GAOTD inside that environment, but I'm not at IT specialist ... just a user.

Don't know if you should or not -- again that's a choice most users can & should make for themselves. I would disagree on the implication that any sort of skills are needed, other than those that are needed to run & use Windows.

Step 1) Download & install VirtualBox & that version's extensions.

Step 2) Download & import the Virtual Machine [VM] for your choice of Windows versions from Microsoft [unless your choice is ME or earlier ;) ]

Step 3) Run the VM, install the additions for that version of Windows [the setup file should show up on the already mounted ISO in the disc drive in Windows Explorer by default], and designate a folder [or folders] to share with your host Windows, so you can move files in & out.

As far as brain power goes, it's less demanding overall than a good many of the weekend games on GOTD. :)

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

In any event I will be upgrading to W10 at some point ..

My humble suggestion would be to do a full disk image backup, making sure that it works & you can restore it if/as needed. If things don't work out, e.g. driver issues from re-badged 8.1 drivers, the win10 rollback option may or may not work.

The reason I'm mentioning it now, is assuming you're talking about waiting for the big update expected sometime around October, it could take a few weeks or a month or so to get everything in place so that you're confident you can restore that full disk backup.

It's not that it's complicated, but some folks don't have extra &/or external drives sitting around, & finding a good deal can take time. Backup software can also be an issue... I tried several, have a USB stick from the recently updated AOMEI app to try, but to date only Macrium Reflect will boot my tablet. I found that the trial &/or home versions of many brands of backup software do not include the means to create their latest bootable USB sticks. I've also found a variance in what's included with various giveaways.

I'm not saying that anyone will have problems, but rather I'm saying make sure you've got the bases covered beforehand, and if you don't already, that could take some time.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

Having carried out a full clean install and then found as soon as I installed KIS that GAOTD failed .... I don't see how de-installing an Oct update will help, as the install disk precedes that date. ?

Let me try it this way:
- Assume the error originates with the transition from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1

- GOTD & Kaspersky started having problems with Windows 8.1 upon release in March/April

- There is no version distinction for KIS between Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1; it's the same software

- Had you upgraded to Windows 8.1 then your problem would have started in March/April

- The "bug" that caused the Windows 8.1 problem migrated to Windows 7 SP1 in October with an update

- Removing the update in October that caused the "bug" will fix your release

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

I don't know what update, I'd have to remove a great many ... to get to it working and then return one at a time until it stops again - to i identify the specific update.
Many of these are security patches or sequential patches, removing a bundle when many have been installed on top could make my system unstable.
Or even vulnerable.

As I will have to upgrade to W10 in a few months and that works, I'll wait until then.
Unfortunate but for me practical.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

Mikem2 ..
Appreciate your view of what is complicated and mine may differ.
Your steps to download & install VM are already way more than I have ever done.
However if I did do this, and it does install a GAOTD program under VM environment ..when I then reboot to standard OS the program is still not indtalled? orc am I missing something.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

The above link to the KBs for the Aug-Oct dates contains all of the updates that were available. You don't have all of them installed. The list also contains informational KBs that aren't updates. You'll need to compare the list of all available with your update history to see how many are there.

There is some risk of instability, that's why you first make a back-up. The security risk, though, is trivial. You make a list of the updates to uninstall, you uninstall a month of them, you test the GOTD installation package and you either uninstall more or start adding some back. Unless you're actively downloading porn at the same time then you'll be fine. Besides, there's always the back-up. Find the problem update, restore your backup, then uninstall the single update.

If you have the expertise to install a program then you have the expertise to install a VM. It's just another program. It's a computer that runs inside your OS. If you want to run a program in the VM you start the program just like you would any other program.

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

A while ago working with my VMs I uninstalled Microsoft Security Essentials & added the trial version of Kaspersky to see if it had or caused any problems with GOTD offers, their wrappers etc. -- at that time in Windows 7 it did not. Since then both Windows & Kaspersky have changed -- Windows has received updates from Microsoft, the trial version of Kaspersky IS available for download is now 16.0.0.614(a), & the VirtualBox Host software is now v. 5.0.4 - 102546. It was time for new tests; this time results were mixed...

Kaspersky IS [v. 16.0.0.614(a)] in Windows 10 64 bit had no effect at all on the Zoomplayer GOTD. Unfortunately the one casualty I suffered from a hard drive failure was my 32 bit Windows 10 VM, which was an Insider build that had been upgraded twice to newer Insider builds, & so probably won't be replaced until the next Insider ISO release. At any rate, I tested the Kaspersky IS trial, finding no problem with the Zoom Player GOTD on a fully up to date copy of the regular version of Windows 10 Home 64 bit, as well as on the Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Insider build 10532.

I also tested that same version of the Kaspersky IS trial on a Windows 7 32 bit VM, where it again had no effect on the GOTD. Unfortunately I can't say the same for my win7 64 bit VM, where the freshly installed & updated Kaspersky IS trial prevented the GOTD from running. That same Windows 7 64 VM had been upgraded to the Windows 10 64 bit Home VM, including the small bit of software installed, where the Kaspersky trial worked with the same GOTD. That meant the 10 VM had the same software & the same drivers [though in some cases newer driver versions], which might point to one of the Microsoft Windows updates Windows 7 64 bit has received since the last time I performed the same testing.

I downloaded the Windows 7 VM that Microsoft offers, finding that it was the 32 bit version, so of no use testing in this case IMHO -- I was hoping for a 64 bit version that might not have received the same chain of Windows updates. Windows 7 ISOs are available to download currently at microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 -- replace the "en-us" as needed. [Note that you'll need to have your win7 key handy.]

Using that ISO [which I assume would be the latest], one could install win7, install Kaspersky software, & test with a GOTD. If that worked, Windows updates could be applied, one or a few at a time, testing the GOTD after every update or small batch of updates. If at some point Kaspersky software prevents the GOTD from running properly, then it would be possible to isolate the update that caused the break, simply by uninstalling the update -- or one out of a batch -- & re-testing to confirm it worked.

Using the latest win7 ISO *may* cure the problem, even with all available updates installed, but if not, any updates that broke GOTD downloads with Kaspersky installed could be researched to see if they were really needed -- the problem an update was intended to fix might not be security related, or an update might have been replaced by a later version addressing the same issue & files, but still show up in Windows Update. A VM might be ideal for such testing, but personally I can't promise it's something I'd get to soon.

Besides being a bit of work I can't get to at the moment, If an update or updates was shown to cause problems, there's no telling if anyone effected would consider uninstalling it, just as there's no telling if a future Windows 7 or Kaspersky update would break it again. Long story short, I'm unsure that there is or would be any interest or reason.

On Windows 10 as a cure I'm currently agnostic, but lean towards skeptical. My concerns fall into 2 categories... One, simply put win10 still feels & acts like a beta. At the moment I have several win10 installs -- I've installed a regular 64 bit pro copy + 32 & 64 bit pro Insider builds [though only the 32 bit version is currently on my HDD], I've got win10 32 Home on my tablet [+ a copy of the Insider 32 bit Pro version backed up], & have 2 win10 VMs [as above, used to be 3]. Yesterday [update Tuesday] I did not have the same experience with any of those copies of win10 -- that should not be. With Windows 7 the same updates were offered for 5 win7 installs [3 regular + 2 VMs, 32 & 64 bit, HP & Ult. versions], but between Windows & Store updates, no two copies of 10 were exactly the same, i.e. had the same updates offered.

The 2nd area of concern is the upgrade to 10 process itself -- I'm pretty confident that several million upgrades to 10 are [sometimes far] less than optimal installs. If a PC, laptop, or tablet had an OEM &/or OEM Windows recovery partition(s), those are likely still there, & could be worse than useless if/when activated. Drivers are usually migrated, but not always, not always to the correct ones, not always to the current versions, & if that wasn't enough, there are plenty of re-badged win7/8.1 drivers that simply don't work properly in 10. And you've still got the inherent weakness of the Windows in-place upgrade, that's been there at least since Vista -- the upgrade process tries to migrate all of the registry entries & critical files, inserting compatibility settings, & the result has never been perfect. Microsoft isn't recommending fresh installs for only one reason -- they've chosen not to let you use your valid, existing key, so the only way to get a free upgrade activated is to go through the upgrade process. Then you're supposed to wipe the disk & install fresh, as Microsoft hints.

That means saving all of your current driver setup packages, researching & downloading newer versions when available, performing an in-place upgrade to 10, getting rid of the partitions related to the copy of Windows you upgraded plus Windows 10 [there could be up to 6, or more if e.g. your backup software added any], installing & updating 10, making sure the correct drivers are installed, then installing your software. It's not that difficult but it is tedious, & most people can't/won't be bothered. Not installing fresh has [if eventually] caused issues in the past -- as 10 makes a few fundamental changes in how Windows works, I've no reason not to expect similar & worse.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

my win7 64 bit VM, where the freshly installed & updated Kaspersky IS trial prevented the GOTD from running.

That's interesting. The 32-bit works fine, the 64-bit doesn't. IIRC, all of the complaints that listed system information were for 64-bit systems.

Then you're supposed to wipe the disk & install fresh, as Microsoft hints.

Thanks for the reminder. I know I read that before but for some reason I still had the thought rolling around in my head that Microsoft finally got upgrade process right.

I just can't see why any consumer with a valid license key would want to upgrade. You have to expend a fair bit of effort to hopefully get the same functionality you had before. Given that you'd probably lose some programs in the process I just don't see how it's worth the time. If Microsoft extracted all of the existing programs with a "File, Data, Settings and Programs Transfer Wizard" and imported them into the new installation then it might be a different answer but re-installation is a major undertaking for most people and small businesses.

I'll readily admit that I'm cynical by nature but I just get the feeling that Windows 10 has another shoe that's ready to drop.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

I can confirm it is 64b W7 that I have had the issues with

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

I'll readily admit that I'm cynical by nature but I just get the feeling that Windows 10 has another shoe that's ready to drop.

Maybe it's because I'm used to dealing with lots of shoes [my wife has plenty & then some], but with 10 I'm really expecting more than one. I look at it like too many buffets offering free food -- so often people rush in without much thought, because after all it is free food, & then they suffer consequences later.

I just can't see why any consumer with a valid license key would want to upgrade. You have to expend a fair bit of effort to hopefully get the same functionality you had before. Given that you'd probably lose some programs in the process I just don't see how it's worth the time.

I'm cheap. When Microsoft offered win8 for $40 I bought 3 copies, figuring it would never be cheaper, the same way I buy extra DVD blanks when they're on sale, or paper & ink for the printer. So I installed 8, upgraded to 8.1, still never used it, so upgrading that to 10 made sense. Once a future version becomes stable enough that I can count on the same thing happening with every copy of 10, I'll probably upgrade 8.1 on my wife's PC, that she's never used. My son the gamer made the leap, & that's because of the AMD graphics boost in 10 -- 10 aggravates him, but it's the fps that's important.

But unless 10 offers something today that you have to have, I agree -- I can't see any reason to abandon a copy of Windows 7 or 8.1 that's working well for you today. I can see if someone's running XP or Vista installing a copy of 10 fresh [assuming the hardware's compatible so it will install], maybe on another partition, & maybe the insider preview if you don't want to part with the cash right now -- it'll likely sell for cheaper in the future, though I've seen some good pricing on win7 & that would include the free upgrade, if you don't mind the work.

I can also see installing a copy next to your existing copy of Windows, on a separate partition or on a external drive, but only if you're the type who rarely buys new hardware. That's the only way to know if & how well it'll run on what you've got, in case there are more compelling reasons to move to 10 in the future, like Microsoft feeling they've reached critical mass & starting to force the issue. To me for example it would be worth it to know if 10 won't run on your existing CPU [or graphics hardware], so you have plenty of time to explore your options.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

I had some time so I wasted a bit of it on Kaspersky.

I installed KIS 16.0.0.614 on a mostly up-to-date Windows 7 x64 VM and got the "corrupted files" error when installing a GOTD program. Before uninstalling updates looking for the problem, I restored an OS version from 7/2014 and got the same "corrupted files" error. I then restored OS versions from 1/2014 and 4/2013 with the same results. Clearly, the problem with current KIS version is not from a recent Windows update but from a KIS program change.

Setting exclusions does not work, nor does setting the GOTD setup.exe file as a "trusted application".

However, rather than using the "safe boot with networking" one can select "Settings : General", Turn Protection Off, reboot, install the program and then turn protection back on once the program installs. Once protection is turned on you cannot install via a "disable protection", it only works if KIS is disabled at startup.

Posted 8 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

Clearly, the problem with current KIS version is not from a recent Windows update but from a KIS program change
.

securelist.com/blog/opinions/72180/can-an-inevitable-evil-be-conquered/ is a blog authored by Alexey Malanov -- if you Google you'll see he's a Kaspersky employee, though no info is given or linked on the page with the blog.

Basically it's an article explaining the steps Kaspersky goes through trying to avoid similar problems as with the GOTD wrapper. I doubt Very seriously that our few voices would prompt such a response, so I ask myself why would they publish this? The immediate answer that springs to mind, right or wrong, is that Kaspersky must be having quite a few problems with such false positives.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

Had a response today form Kaspersky ....

We have forwarded your concerns to our Moscow HQ and here is our reply:

1. The article you provided was specifically written to explain why false-positives happen in first place. Kaspersky Lab is doing its best to have as low a number of false-positives as possible without lowering overall protection. Are there any specific examples of issues with false positives that you can inform us of?

2. The issue you are facing is a combination of our protection mechanism and Themida X-Protector which is used in GiveAway installer.

Unfortunately, we can't release a 'fix' to this issue without lowering the overall protection that our program provides. Fix should come from Themida X-Protector's side: they should detect our software and let installation continue.

3. Once again, we would like to reiterate that a quick fix for this would be to upgrade to Windows 10.

Posted 8 years ago #
ChrisS
Administrator

Argonaut, thanks for the update. I think Kaspersky is off the mark on a couple of points:

Unfortunately, we can't release a 'fix' to this issue without lowering the overall protection that our program provides.

I don't use KIS but, as an outsider looking in, it occurs to me that having users routinely disable the protection in its entirety to install a program from a vetted source is a far greater "lowering of the overall protection". Were I in the security business I'd be very concerned about teaching my users that routinely disabling protection is part of a proper security protocol. Perhaps it's my odd way of thinking but it seems that I'm more concerned about Kaspersky's reputation than they are and it's immaterial to me if their company survives. Maybe it's a "forest and trees" thing.

Once again, we would like to reiterate that a quick fix for this would be to upgrade to Windows 10.

Except from what Mikiem posts an upgrade to Windows 10 really entails complete reinstallation of all programs and restoration of data which is certainly not quick for most people. The "quick fix" of an inplace upgrade will likely be a disaster and it really doesn't say much for Kaspersky if they fail to advise their users of the real consequences of an upgrade. The only real "quick fix" would be to change anti-virus providers or use a VM with a different anti-virus installed given the concern over corporate licenses. I'd abandon KIS because ongoing false positives from a known vetted source is inexcusable.

Posted 8 years ago #
Argonaut
Member

Agree on that .. my last 'clean install' took me many Hrs to get all programmes back .....it was done as it was thought it would fix this issue .... so the effort was to no avail.

Posted 8 years ago #

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