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suggestion for comments area

(28 posts) (7 voices)

Started 18 years ago by whitmar57
Latest reply from LadyGodiva

whitmar57
Member

I was thinking that the addition of the following might be useful to all members...

~each member - upon clicking their vote choice (thumbs up or down) would then be greeted by short form to fill in.

The form would include 2 radio button selection areas and a text box comment area (could also put a max character allowed feature) where members could add any further mentions they want to make. This could alleviate some "lengthy" helpful posts as well as some "not really all that helpful - but I had nothing better to do so I thought I'd just write something here anyway" posts.

The first radio button would be used to offer a numeric "out of 10" point rating system where members could select the number they wished to accredit the giveaway with the numbers 1-10 available for selecting.

The second radio button would be used to "sum up" a textual rating with some possible example selections listed below...

- One of the best Giveaways Ever!
- Love it!
- Pretty good App!
- Looks good but not useful for me
- Thanks but no thanks
- Think this one is a "total miss"
- There are better freebies of the same kind out there

etc.

The whole form could be quite short and sweet!
Ya tick off one number... 1-10, then ya tick off your "general comment vote" choice from the selection given and third you add more detailed remarks if you so choose (helpful or not many members do anyway - I know I've started to a lot more often now.... just can't seem to leave without leaving a comment LOL OY! It's like an addiction!)

This simple form could help make the decision making process (whether or not to d/l an app/software/game) much easier for members as it would take no time to scan the voting results and added comments to get a general concensus.

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I think there really needs to be two separate areas that are voted on.

1. Is this a good giveaway? What I suspect many people vote on is the cool-o-meter. Prior to downloading, their initial impression. Can I use this, or am I not even going to bother reading the program description. This would be like a giveaway equivalent of "Am I hot or not?"

2. The quality rating. Thumbs up or down - from installation to usage. How does this compare as a program of this type.

From another post a while ago:

However, the entire Thumbs Up/Down rating is unclear. Does "Thumbs Up" mean
- It is good software
- It does what it claims
- I like the software
- I have a use for the software
- I could activate the software without assistance

likewise - a "Thumbs Down" rating can have very different meanings and severity.
- My Computer exploded, and I have to install XP again because of this program.
- I don't understand the program
- I don't like the program
- I have no use for the program
- The program is a sham and does not do what it claims
- I still can't find the activate.exe program everyone is talking about

So when you see 50 Thumbs up, and 10 Thumbs down it is not clear if that actually means anything. Also there is no requirement to actually vote/rate the program. Maybe it should have 500 Thumbs up instead of 50, but people were so excited at getting it to run they forgot to vote - and the 10 who didn't like the program currently offer competing products and are trying to bash the opposition. Who would know?

As a researcher once said 50% of survey participants account for half of the responses, and 46% of all statistics are made up.

Posted 18 years ago #
Bobby
Member

Without delving too deeply into the the field of psychology, I'd like to submit for your consideration the theory of 'social capital.' Bear with me while I bring this into the subject of GAOTD forums.

We're all familiar with financial capital and its importance and effects upon our lives; social capital seems to work in much the same way. It is based on mankind's inherent need to divide the world into good guys and bad guys or friends and enemies. To that end, all groups employing 'social capital' ... including GAOTD ... have a 'radius of trust' which includes members who cooperate and interact productively. Within that group, certain factors produce a _very_ narrow circle of trust .. cliques, for example.

There are some who have the skill to move within each of these circles and share new ideas. There are others who roam the periphery of these social circles, seeking to be admitted. Their inability to employ social capital places them into the 'bad guy' realm.

I've noticed certain GAOTD members who post on the Forums and Comments sections are automatically disregarded; others seem to have unlimited access and acceptance (moderators not included here). Those who roam the periphery, so to speak, are the ones posting derogatory, childish, non-constructive and uninformative comments. You will probably have to chalk it up to human nature or the individuals desire to move from the periphery to the inner circle, thereby gaining 'social capital.'

Given those circumstances, I am not sure there is a way to minimize useless comments in a public forum ... public being the operative word, here ... without changing the entire purpose and format.

Now ... I shall leap gracefully from the fo'c's'le (I am a sailor, after all, and would not employ a common soapboax) to carry on smartly. Salute! to you wonderful folks .. I'm off to color Easter eggs!

Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

@Bubby. Love your opposing lists on what "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" truly mean. Sums it up nicely.

GAOTD meant the ratings for people to rate the merits or lack for the particular program itself but often that's not how it goes. Many visitors rate by type of program and whether or not they want to see that type offered, not on the program itself.

Today is a perfect example. Expect many "thumbs down" ratings on today's program just because it's a screensaver. Most of those clicking "thumbs down" will not have even tried the screensaver but will click thumbs down because in their opinion GAOTD shouldn't offer screensavers.

They don't seem to understand the ratings system. They are supposed to be rating programs, not rating GAOTD's choice of programs. I wish people who abuse the rating system would understand it is they themselves who are hurting the site's future ability to get better programs.

A large part of the draw for developers is the chance to get many instances of feedback on their programs in one day, much more than from their own sites where they attempt to sell their wares. If developers cannot expect honest feedback on their program then it diminishes the draw for them or other developers to allow more and better programs for distribution on GAOTD.

@Whitmar. You system is well thought out but I don't think it would stop abuse of the ratings system. The problem is many don't understand they are supposed to be rating programs, not rating GAOTD. As far as comment sections, I would very much rather read one comment that discusses aspects of the program even if lengthy rather than twenty that say nothing other than "This sucks!!!!". If someone believes a program sucks then fine, but WHY do you think it sucks? Comments such as "this totally sucks" followed by "it sucks i agree" then twenty more "meeee tooo, it sucks" provide absolutely nothing of value either to developers or to other visitors.

Posted 18 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

Scanning today's game comments I noticed many authors names & comments seemed too similar to be "chance". Doesn't the GOTD team review or verify members for duplicates ? I have images of a bunch of acne faced,spoiled, selfish outcasts giggleing with glee at how "smart" they are. The numbers of multiple posts "dumb-down" any useful stats. Perhaps I am only a "grumpy old man" because I fail to see any humor in wasting my time tolerating such behavor. There also appears a larger number of these tantrums on the weekends. (No school?)
Moderators could "warn" of this blight as they do with profanity then have them "barred". (Please)

Posted 18 years ago #
Michelle
Member

I think it would be a good idea.

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim
For the most part it doesn't appear to myself (the independent observer) that there is very much accountability to any of the comments posted (except perhaps for the obvious regulars).

If it was up to me I would do the following...

(wavy dreamlike special effect)

Registration (using a forum account) to post a comment is optional - BUT

Unregistered users posting comments are:
- marked as such (different color/icon etc)
- limited to 1 comment per IP Address per giveaway
- are posted after/below any "registered" comments (in a separate block)
- are displayed in reverse order - the most recent/current comment at the top of the list. (This means you don't have to scroll through all the stuff you have already seen to read the new comments - and the "I'm First" posts will need to become "I'm Last" posts.
- are still subject to moderation
- the supplied email address is verified (via a validation link email) before the comment is displayed in the "moderation queue". (ie. fake email = comment ignored & never displayed)
For the regular visitors who post comments from day to day.

They register an account on the forums. The user name registered is reserved for their use only (No unregistered users impersonating a registered user)

Registered users get some useful features:
- ability to post more than once (multiple comments) each day.
- comments appear in a block above/before unregistered comments.
- can vote if a comment is useful or not (next to each comment). More useful comments appear higher in the list. Less useful appear down the list.
- votes/rankings also apply to forum posts - but ranking only applies to daily comments (naturally forum posts are threaded and must remain in order to preserve context). Therefore, helpful/insightful forum posts can boost a users ranking for daily comments.
- rankings "degrade" over time - so after an extended period of non-participation or non-contribution the ranking or "reputation" will eventually revert back to 0. (no resting on laurels - must continue to participate to maintain rank/reputation)
- ability to hide all unregistered comments or hide comments from certain registered users (ie. friends/block list)
- Ranking also affects the weight of voting thumbs up or down against the giveaways. The vote of a registered user with a higher rank/reputation carries more weight than an anonymous or user with a poor reputation.
Obviously this idea would be to encourage and reward people who contribute through worthwhile comments, helping others, and regular patronage to GOTD.

Perhaps even the giveaway developers who provide the giveaways could get on board.

When a GOTD registered user actually purchases or registers a giveaway product they can mention their username to the developer who enters the user name on a special webpage - informing the GOTD team a purchase was made. That user is receives a thank you email and notified they have got a bonus to their ranking or reputation (perhaps acquiring points towards winning a gold plated GOTD mousepad.

-----

Rather than punishing users who do not want to participate constructively, a better option is to reward and build community for those who do. The ranking of how an individual is viewed by the others also would help new users in knowing what to make of the people who are offering advice etc. A "Thank You" button or similar might allow someone who has been helped in some fashion to give another user a "pat on the back" - another influence on reputation and helping others out.

Of course all of this is just an idea - and me just having some fun playing "what if it worked this way", but who knows - maybe even if a few of these ideas were taken on board the GOTD community might grow a few more legs (in unusual places).
Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

And another thing -

Comments that are a question (in any fashion) should not appear in the comments section - the moderator should reply with a copy of their posted comment (to their email) asking that any questions are asked in the forums.

A Comment isn't a question and vice versa.

...

AND users posting comments that "it doesn't work", "it's unregistered", "I've only got 60 minutes" should be sent a link to a page on the GOTD site (with pictures) explaining step by step how to extract a zip file instead of "install" a zip file.

Allowing a post in the comments section that say's "I can't register" and then 10 replies calling that user a goose - doesn't make for helpful reading.

If a standard email was sent directing the user to the forums - maybe people would realise - "Comments" are "Statements about the program (not about GOTD)". Everything else (including "I love GOTD", or "Not another Screensaver") belongs in the forums.

Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

"... maybe even if a few of these ideas were taken on board the GOTD community might grow a few more legs ..."

... or a lot of legs might just run away. Part of the appeal of this site to visitors (as opposed to developers) is it's lack of imposed requirements and restrictions with regard to downloading software and leaving comments. That's how they started and chose to continue, and you can't unring a bell. At least not without everybody remembering how the bell used to sound before.

This site in its present form has already 'grown legs' at an incredible rate. They have been around for what, a little less than six months? Already they have gathered enough of a following that the site now appears in four languages. Adding restrictions now that weren't there before would slow growth, not increase it. Encouraging people to use the forums is good, maybe stronger encouragement is warranted. But not in the form of restrictions.

The main purpose of this site is not the forums or the community. It's distributing software and providing developers a chance to get their company names and products known. The forums are nice but they are an also-and, not a be-all or an end-all. Yes, that does mean there will be junk in the comments. But it's not all junk, there's also real help in comment sections. Like it or not, because so many use comment sections and so few use the forums, help can often be found much faster in comments. That's not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing. It just is what it is.

A prime example was the weird registration screen on Phonome's Phelix from another thread. The people who checked the comments got an answer right away. They didn't even need to ask because they knew there would be others who had questions, and knew those questions would be answered in comments the same day. The one who followed the 'rules' and used the forums missed the program waiting for an answer.

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim
I would hope that though my suggestions were not imposing any extra requirements on downloading or leaving a comment.

Rather I see them as giving some additional incentive to participate, make useful comments, visit the site regularly, and support the developers.

There would be no requirement to do anything at all - you would still be able to download every piece of software without offering anything in return.

Is there a reason why the same discussions occurs every day? Freeware alternatives, activation, ungrateful users, praise or criticism for GOTD etc.

Each day a clean slate is presented and the same discussions happen all over again. There is no history. There are no references visible on how yesterdays problems were solved.

There is not an obvious way to learn and draw on the experiences of people over time.

You make some progress for 24 hours, then start from scratch once again.

Imagine how different it would be if there was a thread where everyone who didn't like screensavers could describe how much it upsets them. They were all together, able to console and support each other in their distress. Everyone else could decide to not read that thread - instead focusing on areas of the product that interested or affected them - like
- things they like,
- activation issues,
- bonus levels,
- alternative freeware,
- other products by the developer,
- how much they love GOTD,
- how they stayed up late/early to be the first to download,
- how they think GOTD is a evil because the giveaway comes with conditions attached.
I'd love to be able to go into a "comments section" and be able to quickly read & reply to issues that interested me. Seeing an issue in the comments section the only way to be certain it hasn't been replied to is by reading all the following comments.

Because of the inherent limitations on "discussions" in a single threaded comment section - some questions get answered 6 or 7 (or more) times.

So we have a big bucket where all the comments have been poured in together, stirred around and we are left to untangle the mess. At the end of each day the bucket is emptied and we start over again.
Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

Threaded comments sounds great for users. It's possible developers might prefer it all on one page though. It's easier to use Edit-Find for relevent terms rather than search threads that may not have relevent subject lines or may drift from the subject.

What looked like restrictions to me was:

a.) Any differentiating between 'unregistered' and 'registered' users. Tiered users discourages participation by creating an artificial class system. Registered forum participants are not automatically 'better' than non-registered forum lurkers or non-registered commenters. Creating a system that makes them 'better' chases people away rather than attracts them to the site.

b.) All commenters must use an email address that can be validated or their comments will be ignored/not posted. People will (rightly) suspect a spam trap because that is exactly how most software sites set spam traps. It's why Site Advisor also tests sites by submitting a verifiable email address, not just by testing downloads.

c.) Commenters with higher 'rank' get counted more in thumbs up/down ratings. This WILL be abused. One person, one vote prevents 'rank loading' such as certain commenters getting everybody at their middle school to agree to bump up each other's rank.

d.) No questions allowed in comments, ever. New people are finding this site every day, not many find the forums. Restricting them from ever asking any questions in comments will lose visitors, not retain or gain any. People who have their activation question answered in less than an hour in comments will happily tell their co-workers, friends and family about this site.

e.) People getting any questions they place in comments sent back to them by email and admonished to use the forums. WAY too aggressive. The forums already don't attract very many people, that will make it worse not better. People who get their activation questions sent back and told to go register an account on the forums if they want an answer will angrily tell their co-workers, friends and family to stay away from this site. Angry people tell twice as many others as happy people.

Maybe a better question is why DON'T the forums attract people? Why is it even necessary to think of ways to make visitors register for the forums? Why don't they want to?

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Maybe a better question is why DON'T the forums attract people? Why is it even necessary to think of ways to make visitors register for the forums? Why don't they want to?

It's called "path of least resistance". Why go to the trouble of registering and posting somewhere else for support if you can just make up a name and email address and post whatever you like in the comments section.

I make no apologies that I like my access to information to have some order and structure. I like repeatable procedures, consistency, accuracy and thoroughness. I do not believe I am hostile or divisive. But I do get frustrated in the absence or logic, standards and design. I accept that there are others who live at the other end of the spectrum who thrive on chaos, unstructured free form data, loosely coupled ideas and concepts and a willingness to concede on principles in order to let everyone play in the sandbox.

In terms of avoiding a "spam trap" using semi-permanent email addresses from sites like http://sneakemail.com/ does the trick for me.

Or This http://email.about.com/cs/dispaddrrevs/tp/disposable.htm might start people off down the spam bypass route.

Alternatively if not separating registered and non-registered comments, giving registered users the option to not display unregistered comments. It could be their choice. It is my view that if somebody has something worthwhile to say, they should be prepared to put their name to it (or in this case - a consistent internet identity - even if it does have a disposable email attached).

I believe always posting under a silly, random name (changes from post to post) removes any sense of identity and consistency and I feel that this reduces credibility compared to "regulars" (whether you agree with them or not). Someone with a history of comments and opinions behind them in my view carries more weight. This only reflects what happens in real life. (Why do TV stations keep newsreaders for 10 or 20 years, instead of changing them every 2 or 3 months? Are you more likely to take advice from someone you have known for 2 years or someone you have just met?)

I only suggested that questions (and possibly answers) were emailed/replied back to the users, as they may want a copy that they can paste into the forums. If the posted in the comment section and it didn't appear - they would be inconvenienced having possibly lost the text of their question that they had spent some time writing. The intention is not to "appear aggressive" - but I accept that it is possible some people may be put off by reply via email to their posted question and if not answered by the moderator, a suggestion that further help might be available in the forums. Maybe even a link to a registration form.

In response to you comment on 'rank loading', (in my idea) unregistered users could only vote on programs not on other users. But in this terribly oppressive class structure, to change you just need a valid email address (eg sneakemail) and to register. Bingo. You have a vote. To prevent rank loading there are a tonne of things you can do. For example - each IP address can only vote for a given user once a day - and all rankings degrade over time (a high ranking might only remain for a week or two before sliding back to zero). And at the end of the day - the "crime" that can be carried out with a high ranking isn't really a big deal - a single ranking has as much chance of changing the world as a single person voting to evict someone in "Big Brother" when voting against the rest of the country.

Anyway - if you remember the (wavy dreamlike special effect) accompanied by the spirit fingers and woo-woo sound - this was my idea and daydream. I'm not waking up until it ends happy. ok?

Posted 18 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

"LadyGodiva" comment above item "B" - valid registration, pushed to the extreme sounds almost "paranoid" IMHO. "If you have nothing to hide; you have nothing to fear".
"BuBBy" idea of a history as a "frame of reference" has merit, I belive. I have often been encouraged to "consider the source". I have been a "member" since around mid-December I think. Many names seem familar to me, that maynot be to someone more recent. I have a degree of "trust" for links and/or suggestions from those with a track record or history. I've learned the hard way by not doing so.
Call it my paranoia if you wish. I'm tired of the comments being commandeered by increasing "ego bloat". Their distain for any offers that the GOTD "mindreaders" don't meet their wants. Complaints that they were decived and only got a "trial" version. Those indignant demands for "no more screensavers" Etc. grow as GOTD grows.
I am trying to encourage some consideration be made for having some kind of "limits", sooner rather than later. New ideas and viewpoints shouldn't be discouraged or intimidated. IP addresses of abuse should be discouraged I hope.

Posted 18 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

@LadyGodiva
"@Whitmar. You system is well thought out but I don't think it would stop abuse of the ratings system. The problem is many don't understand they are supposed to be rating programs, not rating GAOTD. As far as comment sections, I would very much rather read one comment that discusses aspects of the program even if lengthy rather than twenty that say nothing other than "This sucks!!!!". If someone believes a program sucks then fine, but WHY do you think it sucks? Comments such as "this totally sucks" followed by "it sucks i agree" then twenty more "meeee tooo, it sucks" provide absolutely nothing of value either to developers or to other visitors."

What I actually had envisioned was a real-time tallying chart showing all the "comment" choices... like 20 voted "Love it", 35 voted "Thanks but no thanks" etc. as a way for members to get a quick rundown, as it were, of the general consensus of the giveaway while still giving room for additional comments to be added. (I agree that twenty "it sucks" comments wouldn't be very useful - LOL - but it appears that many days it exists regardless)

Posted 18 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

Another idea...

I think it's safe for me to assume that the "reason" behind the comments section is to give members a chance to rate and give their critique on the giveaway currently available.
"yes", "no", "maybe so"??

So what about implementing a panel of maybe 5 or 10 test-drivers who would have access to the giveaway say, 1 hour before everyone else. These "judges" could d/l the giveaway, try it out, kick the tires and then offer their own honest review of the program/app/game.

I'm sure if a call were put out in advance (like 1 week) for test-driver volunteers, there would be many ppl who would love to get involved.

This way the rest of the members would have some real and varied opinions and critiques to refer to before d/l the progs/apps/games.

And everyone could still have a chance to offer their comments just as it is right now. (even those that feel the need to whine "not another screensaver" LOL)

As it stands right now too many (in my humble opinion)of the comments seem to be remarks from ppl who either just don't like the "sound" of the giveaway (and haven't even bothered to take the time to try it out before complaining) or by those who just use the comment area as a place to blow off some steam from a frustrating day.

These comments are a bit tedious and not very beneficial to the rest of the members, yet we all have to weed through the monotony to find the "useful" observations of those who have actually tried the giveaway out and have valuable insight to offer every single day.

Hey, the test-drivers of GAOTD could end up being loved/hated celebrities like Paula and Simon of Amer. Idol LOL - could happen ;-o

Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

BuBBy wrote:

I make no apologies that I like my access to information to have some order and structure. I like repeatable procedures, consistency, accuracy and thoroughness. I do not believe I am hostile or divisive. But I do get frustrated in the absence or logic, standards and design.

A born engineer ... LOL

Order, structure, repeatable procedures, consistency, logic, accuracy and thoroughness sound great. It's just that all those things work so much better when dealing with machines or lines of code rather than people.

There's already a very simple procedure in place. If a few people can't figure out unzip the package you've downloaded AND carefully read the instructions which you can find in readme.txt AND for technical problems or suggestions on our project, please leave us a note in our forums then I truly believe any complicating is likely to make misunderstandings worse rather than better. Your brainstorming method sounds pretty cool though, even has accompanying music. :)

Not surprised the "class" comment made you smirk. I actually smirked whilst typing it but just wasn't sure how else to express objection to creating tiers of users. I like GAOTD's description of the idea of their project, a win-win-win situation for all involved. Developers get to showcase their products, users get the chance to try those products free with no time or feature limitations, GAOTD gets to reap advertising revenues as site popularity increases. Symbiotic with none more important than another, it's really not all about any one of the three.

Thinking it should be all about site users is exactly the thought process involved when some say there should be a "special" license for GAOTD users to reactivate for free in case they want to reformat. I don't see a difference between the thought process that arrives there and the one that says there should be enhancements to comment sections for users or grouping of users. The idea of the site as it exists is very simple and it works, again it's been incredibly successful in less than six months. Why "fix" individual parts of what does not seem to be broken when viewed as a whole?

lwbjag wrote:

"If you have nothing to hide; you have nothing to fear"

That has nothing to do with avoiding email spam. But it is exactly the false dichotomy used by spyware and adware purveyors to justify their malware. (Thankfully, those things are NOT in the programs offered on this site.) If you have nothing to hide why should it matter if spyware sends personal details from your computer to a third party? Why should it matter if adware tracks surfing habits to send targeted advertisements? But those things do matter. That's why people use security software against spyware and adware and take precautions against spam.

@Whitmar57. Your expansions of the rating system sound good. I think my main problem with the ideas in this thread as a whole is they just sound like more work for the GAOTD administrators, both to implement and to maintain, and for very little benefit. The administrators have stated in the past that they have other jobs and families, this is not their only gig. I would much rather GAOTD administrators spend what time they can devote to this site by getting more and better programs and games instead of implementing and maintaining enhancements to peripheral areas.

I see the function of this site as a distributor of software rather than a community building endeavor. There are already plenty of sites that exist solely for building user communities. This is the only one I have seen that mainly distributes software for free that would normally cost.

As to creating panels of special users who would get advance access for reviews, GAOTD uploads programs on the scheduled time. To give certain users access ahead of time would mean either closing access to others for the first hour or else emailing programs to the special users an hour ahead. Again, more work for GAOTD administrators vs. very little benefit. Any review is only one opinion anyway, most times the same program or game is loved by some and hated by others.

Posted 18 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

Godiva - IMHO you're still making a rather big leap. We have already "stuck our neck out" by registering and signing-in. (for what purpose?)I feel there must be some kind of "checks and balances" of software comments. Check #40 & #43 by "White Rabbit aka Stephen" comments in today's game (Sky Maze) for an example. We are required to submit a name and email address to comment there. (same here). It seems that alone would cross your spam threat threshold.
I do agree there would be more work for the GOTD team. My experience and perspective leads me to belive that this "abuse" will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

As I said early - handing over an email address is only a major "invasion of privacy" or inconvenience if you decide that it should be.

Creating a disposable email address for a given purpose (like with sneakemail.com and others) is simple to do, so much that I have little time to listen to people who complain about spam after ignoring suggestions and recommendations to *create a disposable email address*.

It takes less than 2 minutes to do - and if an email address is leaked and you start getting spammed - it takes less than 60 seconds to shut it down, and open another one. More to the point - you know exactly where the spammer got your email address from.

I get no spam in my primary email account. I have no men in black knocking on my front door.

Posted 18 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

I'm not sure what percentage value a person would assign to the comments area as far as it's role in the GAOTD project, but I surely wouldn't describe it's usefulness as merely peripheral.

Sure there are those who use it as a new online sport LOL (..."must be first comment or will die. must be first comment or will die." -ya gotta lovem ;-) But many use it to deliver a report and review of the current giveaway... offering their rundown on the download/install/running experience of the giveaway...and often adding helpful remarks as to usefulness (or not) and likes/dislikes of features etc. Isn't that the purpose of having the comment area?

That is what I understood it's function to be anyway. Am I totally off the mark here or what? LOL

Well let's pretend I'm more "on" the mark than "off"....

Under the assumption that I've taken my meds on time (well except for the funny blue/pink one maaaahaahaahaa!!!) and that really is "water" in my glass... lol... then wouldn't those comments and the whole comment area play a relatively important role in the GAOTD project as a whole?

I mean those comments offer one of the first impressions to newbies/visitors for the whole GAOTD site and they're many members intro/summary to the actual giveaway... what it is, how it works, does it install and activate smoothly or not, is it worth the cash that it is otherwise being sold for etc., etc. That's where I, (and I'm sure many others) go to look for answers and critiques "way" before I hit the download button... waaaaaay!

So now then... if you agree that the comments area "is" in fact a pretty important, integral part of the site then it makes sense to put some more effort and thought into making it more effective, more improved and in turn taking the GAOTD project another step further toward the empire it is destined to become. ;-o ... (ya just never know)

Improvements will hit the "word-of-mouth-advertising-trail" and attract more and more members, which will in turn attract more developers and higher quality giveaways...and the wheel continues to turn and turn and turn. ;-)

win win win win win

Posted 18 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

`Check comment #179 for "WebSite X5" today's software offer. I feel that is an affirmation to monitor IP addresses within the comments area. Several comments there today expressed their discomfort disclosing information without a clear privacy policy. That doesn't appear unreasonable that your privacey be protected. To allow that anonymity to be used for abuse is counter-productive. I belive there should be some kind of process to discourage misuse of the system's intent. I hope it isn't allowed to become a "free for all" of useless "noise" as GOTD continues to grow.
(Best wishes for a safe Friday the 13th) 8-)

Posted 18 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

See 153 also, I have made a complaint about 153, I have read the profanity, I don't have permission to editi it or I would have done it already.

I did however pm admin about 153 ages ago.

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

or the clowns at

248 (or just get a keygen from the usual sources.)

278 And to the idiot who said somewhere in here .... SHUT UP YOU NONCE, of course you can!

I thought the comments "await moderation" before appearing?

I guess you can expect "quality" feedback like that when you aren't held accountable by a persistent identity - or even a valid email address.

Posted 18 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

@Lee

How come you as a moderator (or other moderators) do not have the power to remove comments that contain profanity? This is an overt violation of the rules... isn't it?

If there are members breaking the GAOTD "rules of conduct", using profanity or racial/religious (or other) slurs etc. then of course you should be allowed to remove those posts (perhaps giving the poster an opportunity to "clean it up" before it is again reviewed and then resubmitting). That is the key role of a moderator.

And true, I still hold firm to my previous statements that in my opinion and experience as having been a moderator, anyone in such a role should not be allowed to remove or edit posts at will based purely on personal dislike of the post or poster.

But profanity and blatant breaking of the site rules should absolutely be within their power. The moderators need to have the authority to fairly and discreetly deal with any indiscretions that violate the rules... without question!

Are there even GAOTD Official Rules posted anywhere yet? I haven't seen any... mind you I also haven't scoured the site looking very hard for them either, but you'd think they would greet you off the bat each time you entered any "comment" or "forum" area.

Posted 18 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

I think that yesterdays giveaway comments are just more evidence that the current comment area is being used for evil more than good :-o

Wouldn't it be really useful to see some kind of "voters poll chart" that gives members a quick reading of which comments were most popular and which were least popular?

It could be an auto-updating poll chart (we've all seen them used during elections - diferent colored horizontal bars represent each vote choice and the varying length of the bars shows which comment was voted for more than the other comments.) If the long bar represents the comment you voted for then you're winning - LOL and if the comment you supported is the shortest you're losing and...YOU WILL BE SHOT ON SITE! - or you're just not winning :-) LOL

If I saw that out of 300 ppl 40% voted "love it" and only 3% voted "install issues" then I would be more apt to jump in and d/l and take my chances with the 3% who had install problems. OR I would have to scan those 300 comments and tally up in my head how many "loved it" comments were written amongst the rest of their post and then run through and check how many "had install problems" etc. and let's not forget about all those wise, mature "this program sux" posts that we've all come to expect and cherish each day!

But wading through comments that are for the most part not useful in the least doesn't give this whole "comments area" a lot of value at all.

For instance (and using hypothetical post comment numbers)...

Knowing that #'s 2,3,67,78,81,82,85,99,104,106,112,123,125,148... all similarly thought the giveaway "looked interesting, can't wait to try it out" is really useless information to everyone else! It's silly to even waste your time typing that in the first place!

The valuable critiques come from those who have already d/l and run the software ... not what someone who is "still thinking" about trying it thinks! LOL At this point of the game they don't offer any more insight into the application than I do - if neither of us have bothered to d/l and install it! Duh!

And the other ppl who just insist on flexing their infantile tiny muscles are, as always, wasting perfectly good comment space (air space too with the looks of some of the crudeness that's been purged)

So under the current system.... how many of you really get assistance from the comment area?

How many of you find it tiresome to have to wade thru the childish and unhelpful comments?

Does anyone else think there might be a better way to make the comment area more useful and less emotionally charged? (it's like internet comment rage or something LOL sheesh)

Why not leave the lengthy comments for the forum area.

What about not opening up the "comments area" until after an hour has passed on the giveaway timer?

Then maybe ppl will at least "go try it out" before writing silly things that are not helpful in the least

Let's find a solution here ppl, c'mon now. :-}

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I think another point that shows how the comment section can become very information sparse - how much extra reading was needed to wade through the downloading procedure and posting the product code, and yet still people were posting "where is the product code". It had probably already been posted maybe 20 times and still many people just post their question on the top of the pile, and stand back and watch the flames grow.

Now if there was a single thread with instructions in detail - also mentioning the current server / product code / email status of the giveaway - people wouldn't feel rather than reading Tolstoys War and Peace - they could just ask the question again.

And in a weeks time when someone comes along and is after a succinct opinion on what people thought about the program, or another developer wondering what sort of feedback are they likely to get on their product if they were offerred for giveaway - have to wade through over 400 posts of repetition, complaints, infighting, useless comments, screensaver jokes (226), a crash dump (bunch of hex numbers) 282, even questions about a previous days giveaway.

@whitmar - others are thinking along your line of thought:

#356

Belgian dude (#292): You mentioned the approval rating mystery a while back and here’s one response you got–

“Your right Belgian Dude, about the thumbs up situation. I’ve done it myself loads of times, but not always. Thankfully more often than not I’ve been satisfied. This is actually the first time I’ve ever been disappointed with a program I’ve downloaded and regretted giving it a thumbs up. I wont be using that facility again till I’ve properly tested it from now on.”
Comment by WhiteRabbit aka Stephen — March 28th, 2007 at 9:18 am

Lord knows he’s not the only one who hits the thumbs-up without even checking the giveaway, but the well-intentioned pep squad mentality of the “shut-up-and-be-grateful-’cuz-it’s-free” crowd is skewing the whole purpose of this site. Rudeness and harsh language can be irritating, but honest opinions are more helpful than unconditional fawning.
Today is a good example. Within minutes of the start of the giveway, there are thumbs up and glowing comments from people who could not possibly have had the time to download and try out the software.
Sadly, no matter how many times it’s said, it just doesn’t sink in.
Comment by Sluggo — April 13th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

How about ratings & comments below a giveaway are not available for the first 60 minutes of the giveaway. Hopefully the people who comment "great program" have actually downloaded, activated, installed and used the program. I'm surprised each day there are always people who seem to get to this stage within 6 or 7 minutes of the giveaway starting - in the rush "to be first".

Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

This thread reminds me of where I lived as a child, near a beautiful ocean front marina/pier/recreation area. If you walked down to just before the fishing piers there were benches. Always seated there were older men, most long retired from some ocean faring occupation and missing the indescribable spell of the sea. If you ventured that far it was always a good idea to get them talking about their adventures at sea, wonderful stories even if sometimes heavily embellished. Otherwise the poor souls would sit there all day yapping about who said what to whom at the senior citizen's community center downtown. :P

@lwbjag. The example you cited regarding user White Rabbit was indeed an incident of real abuse, the first that I have seen cited in this thread. It's certainly beyond the usual useless posts like "it sucks!" , "I agree", "meee tooo" "first comment!", or "had a cracked version of this program once, hehehe", all of which I don't consider to be abuse but just plain garbage. I now routinely skip one-liner comments, scroll right past them. Equally useless are the many more one-liner "thanks" comments, though certainly more polite.

Further reading shows the attempted spoof was cleared up between the posters involved. For several reasons, the spoofed comment did not appear at all to have been actually written by the person to whom it was attributed. Even the one insulted admitted such, so not sure why that other person still posted their initial rebuttal and worded it as if the spoofed message was indeed genuine.

Granted, the atmosphere here is not as nice as it was back in Nov. and Dec. of last year, before any jerks arrived. Regardless of any changes implemented to stop true abuse such as the example you cited, abusers will always find ways around it. It's just their character, or lack thereof. There is the factor of a few bad apples potentially spoiling the comment section's open nature for everyone else though. There are perfectly legitimate reasons to maintain that open nature. Too bad the few jerks and juveniles can't seem to control themselves, but thankfully they are in a definite minority at least in the meanwhile.

Now if I were a site administrator, I would not implement a bunch of changes just to stop spoof abusers. Instead, I would check the IP the spoof came from, search past comment archives for that same IP, then temporarily suspend connections to that IP. While the temporary suspenison was in effect, I would then do my utmost to offer any games/programs requested from that IP or similar ones to those that got high praise from that IP. Basically, I would not ban the abuser's IP but merely ground the abuser for a bit. You get what you give. Act like a spoilt child and be grounded like a spoilt child.

After a sufficient period of time I would lift the suspension. But not before offering those games and programs that were begged for by the abuser's IP. Sure it might take two hours to figure all that out, even with using searches on recent comment archives to find the specific IP and then scanning that (ab)user's comments for begs. But it would be two hours well spent.
Of course, I'm evil that way. :P

Posted 18 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

That's not evil. I'd let them download the programs - then disallow the activation.

That's evil. (aka Mick Dundee - "That's not a knife").

Posted 18 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

Oooohh I like it, nicely evil.

They could even add a new message to the activation.exe module: We are sorry, but activation is not possible as your IP has been temporarily suspended for abuse. If you believe this suspension has been implemented in error, please use the 'contact' form to plead your case. Posts will not be accepted in comments or forums for the duration of the suspension.

Posted 18 years ago #

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