Most of us who partake enthusiastically of this wonderful orgy of software distribution put our machines at risk of catastrophc failure more often than the average user. I see in the comments all the time how people have to go back and reinstall everything, and it has happened to me 3 times recently. I want to be ready with an effective restoration capability the next time I screw up. So far my confidence in backups is shaky. Titan didn't work the first time; Retrospect didn't work the next time. Now I'm trying SafetyDrill coupled with a maxtor portable HD, and what can I say? The backups are easy and they inspire confidence. But what will happen when the heat is on? Will some error prevent restoration to a usable condition? Or some idiosyncracy in my hardware?
I'd like to hear some details about strategies from those that have been through it, learned lessons and got on top of it.
Thanks so much.
Backup strategies
(12 posts) (5 voices)-
johnpeter
MemberPosted 16 years ago # -
davee
MemberThere are a myriad of different backup strategies and programs, and no one of them is right for everyone. Broadly speaking, there are two general types of backup: disk imaging and file backup. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in my opinion, both should be included in your backup strategy.
Backup strategies and programs are discussed extensively at Wilders Security Forums (www.wilderssecurity.com). I would recommend that you check that site for detailed information on backing up.
Posted 16 years ago # -
goodgotd
MemberMy personal strategy is to set up (for each machine- pretty much everything but the hard drives are static and don't change) a fully installed OS, with the drivers (chipset, NIC, video, sound, etc) and basic accessory packages needed for the basic job the machine does (my wife's machine, that's playing Pogo, music and movies- so IE 6 sp1, java, flash, a codec pack, winamp 2.9, VLC and GOM players- mine adds firefox, drivers and software for the video capture devices, editing, VoIP and so forth) on a small hard drive or partition on a spare drive.
Then I make what I call a 'basic' drive image (various freeware are available but I still use Ghost 2001) that I then burn to DVD-r. sort of like a minimal restore disc to get the hardware running.
that's an easy way to make a replacement hdd bootable without having to hunt up driver cd's, install discs, and waste all that time saying yes, no, removing outlook express, patching DST- you see what I mean.
Just by restoring the image, using the image program and the ultimate boot cd.
I make a couple copies and toss one in my safe out in the shop.
After that, I use a backup utility to back up changes as things get installed- for my box, that's Cobian 8 set to do a differential backup every 2 days to another computer on the network, and every 2 weeks a full backup.
Which has it's backup offset by 12 hours and is stored on terri's computer, which backs up to mine. These backups ignore transient data (downloads, etc.) and go for newly installed programs, system state, logins, email data files...
about every 3 months, I burn a set of the latest full and differential backups to dvd-r and put those in the safe.
if a drive dies I install the basic image, overlay that with the last full backup, and put the differential over that.
Usually one drive dies at a time so I don't have to use the dvd's- those are insurance for the unlikely.
I'd advise a basic image on dvd, and scheduled backups to your external hard drive, but it's a matter of personal preference, since every so often I have to restore and update the 'basic' image with the new runtime packages like .net 2- but running win2k, that's not often.
Posted 16 years ago # -
johnpeter
MemberThanks Goodgotd,
This is great information. It is obviously a lot more involved that the pitchmen for particular products would want us to believe. I hope I can manage the diligence to pull of such a program.Could you further explain a couple of things, please?
1. The "fully installed OS" with drivers and what else you need to run- does that stay on the drive or partition you set it up on, and eventually get accessed from there when you need it, or are you making the image on DVD of that business so you could then use the DVD to start the recovery process.
2- "Just by restoring the image, using the image program and the ultimate boot cd."
Is the "ultimate boot cd" he same thing you talked about creating in the paragraph before with the "basic" drive image, or something else?3- "These backups ignore transient data (downloads, etc.) and go for newly installed programs, system state, logins, email data files..."
Do these backups include the OS? Does Cobian 8 make these choices for you or guide you to them, or do you just have to know? Do you get to select "newly installed progams" as opposed to older ones?4- About using the backups- when you say "overlay" do you mean the same as overwrite as I understand, where it is replacing what was there before? Or is it somehow just adding information to certain folders that have less complete information than the full and incremental backups? Is this something you do manually?
5- Is your restore process the same whether you are dealing with a hardware failure or an OS that has fouled, and in the latter case, would you do the same if the OS was unbootable as you would if it was working, but not well?
6- Sorry, just one more- and this may come clear through some of your answers to the above, but just in case- When you say "Usually one drive dies at a time so I don't have to use the dvd's- those are insurance for the unlikely." are you referring only to the later mentioned DVD copies of the full and incremental backups, or does that apply as well to the "basic image on DVD" that was created in the beginning"
Thaks so much for what you have given, and in advance for what you can answer.
Anyone else care to share problems or solutions about backups?
Posted 16 years ago # -
goodgotd
Memberin order,
1- no, I usually use a set of spare drives (a pair of 4 giggers, with a couple of 6.4's available) so I can create and update the basic images without effecting the current state of the systems.
So far I have no sata drives to contend with, so I unplug the in-use drives from the motherboard and plug this pair in. the OS gets installed-updated on one, the other stores the image once updated until it can be to transferred to the machine (mine) that burns it to dvd. an otherwise idle old machine (not even in a case) does the transfer.
it never goes on the system's working drives at all, and is used to prep a replacement hd as a drop-in 'boot and run' drive that already has settings for video, audio- and network connectivity. I use static IP's.
2- no, it's an open-source project that boots linux, freedos, and has other tools included- http://ubcd.sourceforge.net/ - and is simply a fast way to get a hardware-neutral operating environment without locking the hard drives. there are alternatives, that's just the one I have handy. completely separate from the image to restore, I don't figure I need the hassle of creating 5 self-booting restore discs.
3- yes, it includes the os, and I simply don't add to the list of backup sources the defined areas where I stage downloaded files, odd data, and digital photos (I use a 'copy on 2 separate computers' method to safeguard those until burn time), nor the areas I use to assemble my data dvd compilations. most backup programs should be able to do the same.
Differential backups record any changes since the last full backup, thus catching new installations.
4- overwrite with the later data, yes.
5- that pretty much sums it up.
If something mucks up the OS reformatting and reinstalling to the last known-good backup makes sure that it's cleaned up, and if the hd fails (what else is worth replacing on Athlon XP or earlier systems as single parts? Ok, maybe memory- but if the motherboard dies, it takes so much else integrated into it out of action a new core computer is more economical) it too gets a stable return.
I forgot to mention that once the image is restored I manually recreate the other partitions of the working machine so the restore goes on the same drive letters. I use an outdated version of Partition Magic, but XP and later can do that with the M$ supplied tools AFAIK.
6- the former. the basic gets installed regardless, and with the daisy-chain backup there should be 2 other machines with the backup data. Cobian as with many others uses zip compression and thus doesn't have to be used to restore the data. It should be very improbable to lose all 3 sets at once.
the other 2 machines on the LAN have such narrowly-defined roles the basic image is all the backup needed. everything else is transient data.
When making data DVD compilations I do use compressed copies of disc cats, copies of working documents, image editing in progress and so on to fill up a disc when there's room, for redundancy.
The disc catalogs (using reasonable subdirectory separation and naming plus forming and holding to a logical content class abbreviation, disc # and date format for volume labels) form a very real advantage in rapidly finding discs that are needed for small repairs (oops, in other words) and locating software or data that's used for a few days and then isn't needed for months.
With hundreds of cd's (I only have about 600 cataloged since that's between when I stopped letting random volume names be generated, and shifting to DVD- still working on how to organize the rest) and as of this morning 476 DVD-r's, physical search for anything is absurd.
The image/backup system is the sledgehammer that takes care of items that band-aids like reinstalling IE or DirectX can't heal.
Posted 16 years ago # -
johnpeter
MemberThanks again Goodgotd. Wow! Thats quite a setup. I'm not quite sure I really get it all, but I will work on it for a while.
You definitely lost me with the disc catalogs- I have no idea how you create or use these, especially the part about "locating software or data that's used for a few days and then isn't needed for months."
The package is obviously goofproof/bombproof. Anybody else out there doing something like this? Other strategies?Posted 16 years ago # -
goodgotd
Memberjohnpeter, I use InsideCAT 4.02 to track my data CD-r and DVD-r collection (DVD-video discs have titles, all the files on them are the same sequence of vobs, ifo's, and as useful to a *file* search as a blank page) as I burn and verify them.
takes 10 seconds to 5 minutes to cat a DVD depending on contents- 4000 freeware programs plus 500 photos takes lots longer than 5 avi movies.
Instead of trying to print a label and paw through discs trying to read them to find what I need, I use a 3-letter series ID, (DLS is cd-r, DVD_ is for data DVD various,and MVC_ is movie-video-audio DVD in avi, mpg, mp3, flac etc.) followed by a 4 digit disc number [first digit is _ for now], then the date as _YYMMDD- and that's what I print on the disc and set the volume label to. Then they go in binders, in order.
I just burned and cataloged DVD_422_080403, as an example.
That way, if I want to find, say, an ebook I read 6 months ago titled 'a deeper blue', or a driver for my capture box that got trashed by an installation, or the movie 'running scared'- I search using InsideCAT, and the volume label tells me how long ago I burned it, which binder to look in by the number, and the rest of the info points to the subdirectory [and sometimes archive] to look in and what formats I can choose from, if there's a choice. even shows thumbnails of my digital photos.
a thousand-plus disc collection, 320 megs of catalog files.
2 minutes tops between 'I want/need' and the dvd spinning up to give it to me.
Haven't found another program that doesn't slow to a crawl by DVD 300 if it records more than file name and size. IC gets name, size, date, files nested inside archives, multimedia info for video/audio, and more.
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Copmom, once set up, it's more work to type out an explanation than to let run. it rides on rails, pretty invisible most of the time. all I have to do is add the backup files to the parade of discs getting burned all the time anyway. once in a while.
The basic disc image idea came as I was staring at the win2k installer 'copying files, please wait' one too many times, with a stack of driver discs to hand, fed up by waiting- and got to figuring how not to do it again, ever. since the basic also includes that leg of the daisy-chain backup program and it's settings... it's self repairing in many ways.
Posted 16 years ago # -
johnpeter
MemberThanks again, goodgotd for the information. Do you (or anyone else please) have any ideas about how a DUAL BOOT system affects backup strategy? I know there is some interdependence between the OS's, like when I find I can't perform partition changes in XP because I created them in Vista.
XP is what the family uses on this desktop. I kept the pre-installed Vista on here thinking people would migrate to it, but they are too smart for that. (I mainly use My laptop which has Vista, upgraded to 2g ram so it gets by, but often I wonder how it might fly with XP and those resources.) So... if I wanted to bump Vista off this desktop at some time, what would I have to do to get XP to stand alone? I'm using Vistaboot pro to manage bootloading, which is installed in XP, but as I understand, it works through the Vista bootloader.
I could see really screwing up my excellent new installation of XP- not being able to boot into it- if I just delete the Vista partition. Does any one know how I should proceed if I want to simplify and get rid of Vista for a while? I do have a disc to reinstall later if we want Vista.
But my main question now is something like this: If I can restore the Vista partition and the XP partition, should that re-create a bootable system, or is there something more I need to know?
Posted 16 years ago # -
goodgotd
Memberwell, dual boot complicates things, and that's a fact. My basic images are all win2k-only since I've found apps that do all the things I used to have to boot back to win98se for- in win2k. as drives fail I shift the machines over to single-OS. And vista I haven't a clue.
OTOH, I am not a usual 'one or 2 computers similar, old ones leave' person. Older systems get stored, as they get shuffled off the '24/7 needed' list, preserved for times when I want to futz around with win98, OS/2, DOS, etc. for games that don't like more modern stuff.
I can light up anything (in pc-compatible, the rest are relics) from a list including a 80286-12, 80386-33 (mono/hercules), '486dx-40 to dx5/133 (have to look, dx4-100 for sure) with 1-4 meg vga, P-90 & 166MMX (16 meg Voodoo Banshee), K6-233, P-2 333...
and the lan has a celeron 366, K6-2/450, p-3m 450, Athlon XP 2200+ and 2800+ online all the time.
(ok, the p-3m disconnects and goes with me on trips)
yes. I'm a packrat. and still don't know about juggling XP and Vista, sorry.
WAG says that *should* work, but...
Posted 16 years ago #
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