Giveaway of the Day Forums » Talks

1. Chip12414
   Member

   I am running Windows XP. Prior to installing any large application or program, I open up WinXPs "System Restore" feature and create a new restore point. Then I install the application or program. Once the installation is complete, I reboot my computer and launch the new application/program. If the new program does not work properly, seems too bulky or slow to respond and I do not like it, I use System Restore to bring my computer back to the point before I installed the new program.

   I did this after installing Roxio's Easy Media Creator 9 which gave unintelligible error messages ("Error 1721") and could not locate my cd drive. I was really upset because the cd drive's eject button would not respond after I installed this program.

   But...since I had set a restore point just prior to installing Easy Media Creator, I used System Restore to "restore" my computer to the point prior to the Easy Media Creator install and...whew, thankfully...my cd drive again worked perfectly and I still can use other programs to burn audio and data cd's and dvd's without the help of Roxio's bulky Easy Media Creator.

   My question...is it better to use "System Restore" in WinXP or is it better to use the uninstall feature from WinXP's "Add or Remove Programs" in the Control Panel to get rid of an undesireable program shortly after installation? Does my "System Restore" procedure get rid of registration entries? Or is the "uninstall" procedure the better way to go?

   Posted 11 months ago #

2. BuBBy
   Administrator

   I think of System Restore as a last resort "seat belt". After things have driven your PC into a tree (maybe not a great analogy), and stuff doesn't work anymore - the last thing saving your butt - System Restore rolls back (as best as can be done) to a earlier point in time. There is a very good chance that as well as affecting the program you want to uninstall or roll back - there will be a lot of innocent victims and collateral damage (basically all the other stuff that changed since you make that restore point). It's pretty much all or nothing.

   I would definitely use the Uninstall Program over System Restore. (Provided I am fairly confident the program to uninstall might be the cause of problems)

   People can worry a lot about left over Registration entries, but if the truth be known 99.9% of the time - users will not see any performance difference. (Not the story that developers of Registry Cleaners want users to hear). Just a simple periodic run through with CCleaner (including the registry clean - with backup) is quite sufficient.

   Keep system restore for those times when something happens (in the not too distant past) and stuff stops working in a big way - going back in time with system restore, will probably get you out of trouble - but with the risk of some possible "friendly fire" on other programs or settings. (By that stage, most people don't really mind too much).

   Posted 11 months ago # | Login to Send PM

3. mrkesik2008
   Member

   I find system restore to not be useful at all, I have never found a time in my life where I needed to use system restore to restore my computer to a previous time. Rarely, I have boot problems with my PC and I have to reinstall the OS, but I can't use System Restore if I can't boot up. Disable it, it just wastes loading time.

   Posted 10 months ago #

4. bigharry
   Member

   Can anyone explain just how system restore works? I know it is not a backup but does it use a whole lot of my hard drive?

   Posted 10 months ago #

5. RunesageMagik
   Member

   From the horse's mouth, you need a wee bit o' free space or it is disabled.- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/267951

   Some interesting factoids:
   http://searchwincomputing.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid68_gci1251675,00.html
   http://www.theeldergeek.com/system_restore.htm

   Niche Marketing? Now there's even a System Restore Manager. -
   http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,45438-order,1-page,1/description.html

   Posted 10 months ago #

6. Archangel
   Member

   I have to agree. In fact I've never used system restore. If something has gone wrong or I have a conflict on my pc due to a recent installation I uninstall it. What I would recommend is a good uninstaller rather than MS's.

   System Restore mainly back up's the vital parts of Windows and also the registry.

   Posted 10 months ago #

7. BillW50
   Member

   Now we have EAZ-FIX (GAOTD 1-25-2008) which does the whole drive and can make images of the drive as well.

   Posted 10 months ago #

8. Dragonlair
   Member

   I have used System Restore when I was having a problem with one product and it's "companion" products. Installation of the companions would corrupt the main product and there was no uninstall for them. The ONLY way to get the system back to the per-companion state was a system restore. Fortunately, the product generally set a restore point.

   Some of the companion products did list an uninstall but it would not work.

   After several months working with the developer of the entire sequence, I had to "punt". I went into the Registry and deleted every thing I could find with his company listed. Then I started installing from scratch. I still don't have all the companions listing uninstalls (there are 12 companions and 5 main programs) but everything is working right.

   I am running 32 bit Vista Ultimate.

   Conclusion - system restore is a good fall back but you should try other ideas first. Never try to go back more than a few days. You could lose a lot more than you think!

   Posted 10 months ago #

9. copmom
   Member

   For all those oddball entries in the registry, I've found System Mechanic and Registry Mechanic to be very helpful! Especially if you add/remove and/or uninstall things very often!

   Posted 10 months ago #

10. ldahl
    Member

    I hope this discussion continues as I am trying to get my computer more organized. I've got twenty gigs on my C drive and 37.2 on my D slave/data drive, plus a small 10 gig(9.36 really, you know how that goes)USB external but I'm running out of room. Particularly on my C drive. I have around 5 gigs left but that is as close as I like to run it. I have another 40 gig drive that I would like to swap out for my master C drive but I don't want to lose my registry or all my installs. I'd like to send everything on C to the new 40 gig drive and keep on keeping on... but how to do that safely? I've been following every give away and discussion with interest, but I'm just getting more confused.
    I know you are probably wondering why such small drives to begin with... I will use all the space I have available and then I can't find anything:))) This is a workable limit for me, the only reason I'm considering the larger drive for C is that I've enlarged the number and quality of graphic/art related programs I use and all their extra bells and whistles... That doesn't leave much wiggle room on C. I run them off of C for the small amount of extra speed it gives me. I work freelance, and sometimes I need all the extra umph I can get, slow-downs of any kind are a real problem when a client throws you a project he thinks he needed yesterday.
    I'm really scared of messing with a system that has been my stable workhorse for 2 years. I ask a lot from it and it just walks through all I torture it with. I should probably tell you that my power supply is pretty much maxed out too. I unplug/unhub my printers, scanners and Wacom(all USB)when not in use.
    Any help or ideas would be appreciated!

    Posted 10 months ago #

11. Whiterabbit-uk
    Games Guru

    I installed EAZ FIX on my computers yesterday, despite all the negative comments becauseI stopped using dual boot systems when I started to expand my collection of computers and because I've had mixed results from using system restore. Generally I rarely use it, so when I do, the changes made are so drastic to many of the other programs and games that I've installed, that I shy away from using it even more. Though I think the way you are using system restore Idahl, is the most sensible way I've ever known anyone use it as snapshots everytime you install something is going to stop that major loss of confugured programs.

    Anyway, I'm really glad I did install EAZ FIX as I had a system crash on my main computer, which after the memory got dumped it wouldn't return to the windows home page, so on restarting the computer I hit home as directed by the screen that pops up during the boot process and voila, the computer was back to the mornings settings (I've configured it to take a snapshot on the first boot of every day, so I'm effectively emulating your way of doing things (Idahl) I also create executable files of all programs I install using the export command in the registry editor, though I don't do this for the giveaway registry entries. That way I have a secondary back up. It also makes it easier for me to install all my purchased games and applications without having to search for the registration codes as using the executable reg file automatically does it all for me. I keep a copy of the registry file and the application/games executable in a folder which I then back up at least twice.

    I wish I'd have done this a few years ago as I've lost detasils of several registration codes that were emailed to me using a Yahoo account that lapsed due to lack of use. Stupidly I made o copies of the reg codes.

    Youtr lack of space appears to be reaching a critical point. Is there any room in the bays you find inside the computer for another HDD? I just purchased a 500Gb disc for around $100, which is relatively cheap these days. There doesn't seem to be much difference in price between 80Gb drives that are still on sale and 500Gb these days, though I realise that there are better and more efficient HDD's that cost a lot more.

    I bought a Seagate ATA drive several months ago that had a really useful CD bundled with it that enables you to completely transfer your windows system, including the registry to a newly installed drive. (as well as all the usual stuff such as formatting and creating partitions. It wont work with some makes such as Maxtor, but does work with Western Digital drives. I transferred a windows installation from a Seagate to a Western Digital (the new one I've just bought) successfully yesterday.

    I'll check to see if the program isn't too large and if it's allowed I'll upload it to my filefront account so that you could try it. I'll have to see if it's freeware first though ;)

    Posted 10 months ago # | Login to Send PM

12. ldahl
    Member

    Thank you for your response WR! The 40 gig drive I want to convert to my C drive is a Seagate. I forget now what my main C drive is, it might be a Western Digital as I've always have had good luck with them in the past. I'm going to crack the case the first of next week to install a couple of new fans(one of 'em died and the other 'most dead).
    I know it sounds like it would make sense to get that huge mega-mega drive, but honestly...I'm horrible, I would fill the thing just as fast as a smaller one, then not only would I never be able to find what I need, I would have huge cleaning/organizing problems too. When I'm doing graphic work there are many times I don't have, or take the time to be the most tidy.
    I have to remember a lot of different jobs and where they are and all the extra graphic files that goes with them in many different versions and formats and sizes etc, etc...When you have clients that have been with you for years in many different ongoing projects, it isn't hard to get swamped in files and reference materials. Not to mention all the personal projects and now......games heheheh! So I want to keep it small and keep it manageable. That way, when I start running out of room I know it is time to change my evil ways, clean computer house and get all those jpg's and bmp's off on cd's. But even that is a problem, just have a job thrown at you and you know you have some files that would work well with the project...but instead of going to your drive you have to take the time to find that file on cd. I've used a cataloging program before, but in truth it took so much time setting it up and keeping it up... it was not worth it and went back to using my head(another mistake I'm sure:))))I back-up all the most valuable files to a small hard drive that is stored in a large mayonnaise jar buried under the back porch.
    I do have two bays open for drives, but I'm afraid that even though I'm not over-clocked, I still run pretty hot at times because of cpu usage from some graphic programs and frankly don't think my power supply will handle anymore peripherals...

    I have never ghosted a drive before, I've always rebuilt, but frankly, even though it is good in one way as you get to start over with a clean slate, but in another way it is horrible because a rebuild is a huge job. It will take me weeks to get a system that will function well again. Think of all the incompatibilities I have to work through,all the drivers, dll's and small, often abandoned graphic programs that are no longer available(such as Primus, Eye Candy 3.1 or psp6)if I find the stored program is corrupted, or have misplaced the key... I could lose it forever. So rebuilds are a hand sweating nightmare, one that I don't feel up to at this time. I just want to make my C drive bigger and get back to work. I have read what people say about setting up new computers by ghosting and they are back in business in short order. This sounds good to me, but I usually error on the side of caution... rarely rushing where angels fear to tread, and all that jazz, except for the exceptions, where I do something crazy and thoughtless.:))) Worse comes to worse, I will dump as much data as I can on my old D drive(and put it in the aforementioned jar), and start over again with the new Seagate drive in D. It won't make my life any easier, in fact harder, because to get at that info I'd have to swap out drives. Doesn't sound convenient to me. A complete transfer would awesome! I really appreciate your input and help.

    Posted 10 months ago #

13. graylox
    Member

    Oh, LDahl, that sounds so familiar! I wrote in another threat, that I fell asleep in front of the pc: sorting all my graphic-tools, plugins and filters is so boring, but I have to clean up my c-drive, there is only 1.4 GB left - not enough for a defrag.
    Moving so many files to the other drive take sooooo long time, do you know any program which can speed up that procedure?

    Oj, I have to leave the PC now, between 08.00 and 14.00 h is the master's time ;-)
    graylox

    Posted 10 months ago #

14. Violet4714
    Member

    hello, graylox...
    i've used the free for home users version of TeraCopy, at codesector.com to move files around...
    seems faster than usual to me...

    Posted 10 months ago #

15. graylox
    Member

    Thank you, Violet, I'll try it.

    Posted 10 months ago #

16. Violet4714
    Member

    you're very welcome...
    now i can find out if it's really faster, or my imagination again...
    :)

    Posted 10 months ago #

17. ldahl
    Member

    1.4!?!! EeeeeKKkkkkk! I try to keep at least 5gigs open, many graphic programs need room to breathe when they are opened. I defrag probably more often than I need to, but I'm paranoid and you have to have turn-around room to do that. And then I have to throw work on the desktop to have fastest access, more room needed per working session.
    I just spent one of my sick(I've had a nasty, nasty cold) days sorting and filing. Barely made a dent, but better than it was.
    I do this, on my little USB drive I make a folder named something like "Gather Fonts" then I move every file in that I have in my two work drives that is a font file. Zipped fonts in a sub folder, opened fonts that are grouped by categories in another sub folder, loose uncategorized fonts in another. That way I can use my font manager to find every font on my system and get them all in one place. This is when I find all those duplicate files and can do cleaning. Then I burn everything(back up)to disk, twice for those very expensive purchased font sets and fonts that are my work horse fonts. Decide which fonts are out of favor or style, which ones are chained to work(a lost font file in a vector job will destroy completed work) and then move all the major ones back to my C drive and the minor ones to the D drive where I can use my font manager to find and install on the fly. Then I delete the whole lot off the little H Drive and go for the Plugins and Filters. I leave everything alone in my three main plugin folders and only "copy" out of them(instead of move) because it has taken many, many days of trial and error to get them all compatible with the graphic applications I use them with.(A nightmare, yes?)Then on to the JPG's and BMP's, PSP's, CPT's, TIFF's etc. There are too many by far to move to any small drive, so I use Digital Viewers to sort and move them into Category folders. I have used IrfanView and now XNView too. Both have fast moving capabilities; I'm liking XNView's moving system better as you can drag and drop multiple files into folders at once. Both are freeware. I do try to have a somewhat workable file system on all my drives, I run into trouble with all the pic files,links and zips I've D/L'ed. They are always just one step from total chaos at any given time!!

    Posted 10 months ago #

18. AlexSJ
    Member

    Going back to the Starting point of this thread and the use of System Restore:
    since it has been offered here a while ago I have been a mostly happy user of RETURNIL (http://www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/ They offered the business edition, but also have a free personal version).
    The program has two modes: On = Protected(Red icon) and Off = not protected(green icon). In protected mode any and all changes done to the system partion will be erased when you turn the computer off and your computer is back to what is before. For me that means that I install most Giveaways and Games in protected mode and see if it is something worth keeping or not. If I like it and want to keep a particular program, the pc needs a change back to the Off = not protected mode which requires a reboot. I then install the program etc.
    Note: In order to use Returnil you should have at least 2 partitions on your pc: the system partition for programs and another partition for your DATA (I also save all downloads there), otherwise you won't be happy. However, this setup allows me to work in On = protected mode all day long without loosing any information.
    It's great for the kid's computer as well and allows for much more relaxed surfing in the net ...
    The big, very big plus with Returnil is that there are no compatability problems with other programs and it's not obstrusive like some other programs (with one exception that I learned the hard way: don't use Mojopac when it's ON ...)

    Additionally I have Erunt running, which makes regular copies of the registry, which can easily be restored. http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

    Now for those copying files back and forth, look into using a synchronizer, which can help with this task. These programs copy files faster and more reliable than Explorer (www.superflexible.com)

    Pura vida, AlexSJ

    Posted 10 months ago #

19. RunesageMagik
    Member

    Hey, Alex, appreciate your firsthand comments 'bout RETURNIL. Could you please list your PC's specs, and also whether there's a way to save what's in RETURNIL in case of an unplanned reboot? Been looking at various virtual systems but with my forgetfulness, but I get a little nervous about installing something in a sandbox with the possibility of forgetting to make the changes permanent should I absentmindedly shut down at the end of an exhausting day, or should our increasingly unreliable electric service blink off and then on again. (I know, I should have an UPS by now... but food, mortgage and taxes keep getting in the way)

    Posted 10 months ago #

20. copmom
    Member

    A couple of notes.... I was told years ago that you should never let your hard drive get down lower than 10% of it's total space! In fact windows has popped up periodically letting me know when it is getting low!

    And like Rune.. we have problems here quite often with power kicking off/on. The main times I've lost things is when our machines get fried! Don't tell me lightening never strikes twice in the same place! When we have a thunderstorm, I not only shut down, but also unplug. Been there, done that. I used to have our fax phone line plugged into once computer for using WinFax to send/receive, and when I did shut down and unplug, I forgot to take out the phone line! That machine got fried that way. Now I have the fax line plugged into a 4in1 printer and that's not hooked up to any computer. Rather replace the printer than the whole computer!

    On this machine I have 2 SATA drives.. C: is 145GB and is down to 188.2GB and other drive is F: 298GB and is down to 223GB. On my important things (like my business invoice program with all sales data), every time I make entries I back up to the C: drive and then again to the F: drive. I'd like to copy/ghost everything on my C: to my 300GB external drive which I keep in a safe place, but still am not sure which program is best to use to do that. You've all mentioned so many ghost programs that now I'm totally confused! Acronis, CasperXP, XXClone? All I want to do is clone the whole HD to my backup external. What's the best?

    Posted 10 months ago #

21. copmom
    Member

    By the way, just went to Acronis web site, and looked at forums, and someone there said it didn't work on WDC (Western Digital Drives), which is what I have for both of mine. Any thoughts on that?

    Posted 10 months ago #

22. Lee
    Administrator

    I remember system restore in Me, useless, I also used roxio go back deluxe, o.k. slowed ones system and once restore points maxed out they got over written.

    System restore in XP I turn it off and use ghost. Prefered Powerquest drive image, till Norton aquired it.

    I did change to Norton Ghost 10 couple of years ago and works fine, has issues, like leaving files in the recycle bin from previous usage, when you delete drive and restore an image.

    Posted 10 months ago # | Login to Send PM

23. Violet4714
    Member

    @copmom...

    while moving files to external hard drives, my system restore turned off & deleted all restore points...

    after the search thru MS "knowledge" base, finally found the following:

    when your disk/drive has below 200mb free space, system restore turns off to save drive space...

    so...in my case...when i turned on the external drives, system restore began monitoring them...and as they filled to capacity, system restore turned off & then deleted all restore points...on all disks/drives...

    the fix was to free some space, then set system restore to not monitor those ( always full ) drives...

    for some reason, it took some fiddling off/on with the monitoring a few resets before it stayed put...go figure...i check the settings every so often to see if the external drives are still not monitored, just in case...

    so if you were told 10% years ago with those smaller drives, you probably had a winner...

    @AlexSJ...

    thank you for the RETURNIL info...i've been reluctant to try it...

    @Lee...
    saving space by turning off system restore & using something like Ghost is seeming like a better idea all the time...i backup, but who ever really knows?...

    thanks, everyone, for all the info here...

    Posted 10 months ago #

24. copmom
    Member

    Oops..typo.. C: drive is down to 88.2

    Posted 10 months ago #

25. AlexSJ
    Member

    I'm running XP on two machines (laptop and kid's pc), both have Returnil Business 1.6 Edition running. Since the laptop has little space I have only 2 partitions (system plus data), for the kid I have a third partition with mainly games.

    Returnil comes with its own safe partition thing, but I prefer to have a windows based partition on the hard drive, just feels safer. During install there is an option to skip the Returnil partition.
    In terms of backup, I kind like having the 2 partitions as I can easily backup all data files to an external drive, which I prefer to do 1:1 with a syncronizer.

    Returnil is configured to start in Off mode on re-boot, but I usually turn on protection very fast. This is easy to do thru session lock, which does not require a re-boot. Anything I download I download to the second partition, but I almost never ever install anything unless I try it in protected mode first. If it's a keeper, I reboot, grab a coffee in the meantime and install permanently.
    Updates or maintenance like defragmentation, registry cleaning etc must be done in Off mode, otherwise the reboot will void it all. Example: On Friday I had to install a huge 7GB SQL file on the system partion, which I don't really need to have on the laptop after working with it a bit. Lazy me, since I haven't even started it is still there, all the while I'm doing all kinds of other stuff. Even though this is somehow all working in virtual memory, you won't notice any performance slowdown ... or at least I don't. However, if I reboot, it will all be gonne, nicely and without a trace.
    I once tried this Bufferzone thing, but one was never sure what was saved where. Not with Returnil and a little bit of personal discipline.
    Anyway, any kids or visitor will mostly always be working in protected mode and well, they just can't save stuff permanently under "my docsuments". That's what the USB sticks are for ...
    Pura vida, Alex SJ

    Posted 10 months ago #

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