Been out of touch for a couple days. Sorry, I just have to says this. Hmmm. Negative comments that disappear. Even stalwarts of the project starting to see a few chinks in the armor. It makes me feel a little like Cassandra. (Check out your Greek mythology.)

Seriously, I feel I've been misunderstood, here. I'm still an enthusiastic supporter of GOTD. But, what my critics don't get is this: When I say these things I'm simply trying to HELP the project. You know, like kindly suggesting to someone, "You know, if you'd put the car in reverse instead of forward, you wouldn't keep crashing into your garage door." What those who want to shout down any criticism don't understand is that many of us who say these thing are really just trying to help the project, which we still like and appreciate. Of course, it doesn't take too many ignored suggestions to realize they're only half listening, if at all, in GOTD land. And GOTD may think it's paranoid tendency towards secrecy helps it's image, but, if the problems in the comments section are glitches and not censorship, and you don't tell people you're feverishly working on the problem and it might take some time, by the time you fix it you could have lost a LOT of people. Just like the "unfixable" email notification problem that miraculously got fixed. Reminds me of what the World's Worst Director, the now immortal Ed Wood, used to say about some of the INCREDIBLE gaffes that showed up in his films, "The audience will never notice". How prophetic. :) How much more would a simple blog post saying you're working on the comments problem go toward improving the project's image? And, of course, actual censorship of negative comments will go a LONG way towards creating good feelings about the project. LOL!

Yes, I suppose we could all just sit here and say, "It's free! If you say anything you're just spoiled!" I guess complacency is how they put men on the moon. ;) Before, when I criticized, I was just trying to make GOTD aware of some bugs that could be easily smoothed out and would improve the impression the project made on new arrivals. Believe it or not, I was still bullish on it. Now, I'm starting to wonder if we aren't seeing the first signs of things slowly circling down the drain. If you go back and look at the comments section from early 2008 even, you'll see comments from veterans of the comments section who gave up on the project in disgust. Sooner or later, retention may become a problem because the supply of new users may not be inexhaustible. We forum members forget that most GOTD users don't ever join the forums, so our voices may not be representative of the overall feeling people have about the project, good or bad.

Good Morning, Mr. Administrator and welcome to the club!

I'll try not to comment about the moderation of the reviews anymore. That seems to become a never ending story.
Looking at the low quality of the Giveaways respectively the dubious appearance of the developers' homepages and the unethical hijacking, it soon could be that no serious user will try and review the GOTDs anymore. Or the next reviews will be published by WOT, with a thick red arrow in front of the rating.

It seems, the darkness and the cold outside made me rather cynical, sorry.

graylox

even my ratings disappeared 2 days ago - on about 2 or 3 categories. As a moderator I cannot even see or approve ratings or comments in that section. (I guess that section is ultra secret).

Just be aware if you do make a scathing comment in your ratings (no swearing, obscenities or personal attacks - just basically saying the software isn't even ready for beta testing and should be sent back to the developer for further work) - don't be surprised if your words vanish into thin air.

Best to say only nice, or "slightly disappointed" things - the sort of things a developer could use on their "testimonials" webpage. After all, GOTD is "promoting" the software.

To be fair though, the last three days giveaways have really been stinkers... or "below the usual standard" of GOTD giveaways.

Ok ok how about a compromise. I guess they are "unusually scary" lol :p

Chip, I'm not a native English speaker; "scary" is the word which verbalises best what I was going to say.
As long as I don't know, if that what happened was intended or a mistake by a "robot moderator", it's not "unusual", but "scary" for me. Well, I could have said "unexplainable" or "mysterious", but I chose "scary", alluding to Halloween.(Though I was/am not frightened to death).
Same thing happened on a later occasion and even today. My "Price" rating of today is gone
Scary!

graylox

No, no, it's not a big deal, I'm only posting because I don't want to be the cause of people apologizing when they don't need to. My 2 points are: there's still problems with comments on the main page getting through to GOTD, like Lady Grey said in the first place. Maybe it's primarily technical, maybe it's disinterested moderation - when Bubby says there's an occasional problem with moderation I'm inclined to take his word for it. But, in any case, a lot less posts are getting through than before. Whether this is really bad is a gray area. I can see where developers would look at a sparsity of comments and think GOTD isn't reaching enough people. On the other hand, a smart developer would look at the number of downloads, purchases, and hits/downloads from the ads, all of which are more important to a developer's bottom line than a bunch of comments. So, again, the shortage of comments may hurt GOTD, it may not. So they may want to put an emphasis on improving the situation, or maybe not.

The other thing I was saying is an ongoing comment on the irony of this statement on the main page, "Please comment only on the software here. If you have technical problems or suggestions on our project, please leave us a note in our forums." Really? If we post those things, GOTD, will you actually read them? :^,

Edit:
I just realized that there is further irony in that GOTD, instead of using the mediums for feedback it already has, has started using this sticker applet. According to the blog post, this is already starting to get heavily panned, though I suspect this has more to do with GOTD's new partnership with Sticker than actually trying to solicit feedback. Maybe I should post the smirking emoticon again. :^, Personally, I don't understand these services. Why would you encourage people to plaster things all over your page? Can everyone see it, or just you and the website owners? Does this help the owners more than just reading the suggestions from normal sources?

Thanks for the clarification, The post leaving topic is basically my fault. I had been up the whole day and half the night playing games, but I was trying to bring it back in with my last post.

It is interesting which is why it drew me in. It is also easy to criticize when you sit on the sidelines, but if the site was yours what would do. Imagine this, most people are, but a few are griping.

You will never make everyone happy, so why bother.

Haha yeah I changed the title from "Scary" to "Unusual". I think scary is a kinda strong word and unusual fits more of what's going on here. But yeah I do agree on how interesting this is. This forum topic has already went off topic from the original post. But I see this alot in many posts. Yes the GOTD admin don't really care about us in the forums. They have to many other things to worry about with the main site to check up on us everyday. That's why they leave it to us mods to do the work. Perhaps a mod is drunk with power like you say or maybe they are simply not reading what they delete carefully before deleting it. Whatever the case the forums seem to be alot better now than what they were back in the day. And as for the main site comments, there's nothing we can really do. Only a few admins and official GOTD staff have access to those comments so any complaining for that must be done to GOTD directly because they may never even read this forum topic.

I see I misread your post again. Though I do remember that you meant the front forums, which is one of times I erase my previous posts. Its hard to when your here all the time to think about the other forum, which is probably what happens with the GOATD guys. They don't ever come here, so they don't think or care about this forum.

I was reading the posts from the icepine converter and one of those guys was upset that he clicked on, downloaded, and installed the Advanced System Care Package located right under the giveaway thinking it was the giveaway.
Someone responded harshly saying GOATD supports ASC and that he wasnt hijacked and he should have payed attention to what he was doing.

I was giving it a rough break down. I was thinking about and really though in way he was hijacked. GOATD purposely set up ASC download there so people will screw up and and accidentally install it instead. Why would GOATD do this, because ASC pays them for so many downloads or installs.
People are not going to click on the banner willfully, they would just go the site and download it. I always think any banner or advertisement as a possible virus and stay clear of it.

I'm not sure if see how this fits in with what your saying. Its a little bit different take on a different problem. It popped into my head when I was thinking the site needed fixing as I was reading the post.
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You're right about losing people and people will start reporting to google. After enough reports google will put up web page block enter at own risk. Very annoying and very bad for business.

I quit installing their programs a long time ago, so rarely even read the forum, but I will start now and keep an eye out see ones that shouldn't get deleted- get deleted.
I might even take screen shots for awhile, just so I'm not wondering.

Sorry, Txnnok, I saw your post this morning but just started a temporary job that, with the commute, is a 13 hour day and I didn't have time to reply this morning. I'm sorry if you were led to believe that I felt you should apologize to me, but there was no need. I'm sorry, but the easiest way is to quote myself.

"I assure you, I've got no bone to pick with you. This comment isn't addressed to you."

I was just trying to point out the irony of the whole thing, because directly after your comment was a post that criticized that I was criticizing GOTD. I'm afraid that's not a new thing, but that's exactly what I was referring to. I wasn't going to respond, but it also fell into another category that occurs all to often here, people that criticize what other people are posting without carefully reading what other people are posting. (I'm afraid I've done it myself.)

And we've had this happen in a lot of threads. Someone, like Graylox in this case, will post about their surprise and mild frustration over problems with the comment section on the GIVEAWAY page, and someone else will post about how they don't understand why anyway would say that about the forums, since they've never seen it happen in the forums. But NOBODY was talking about the forums.

And regardless of whether my sarcastic comment was too pessimistic, it all boils down to something I've said here dozens of times. Despite what GOTD says on the main page about posting comments on the project in the forums, there's never been much evidence that GOTD actually pays much attention to what's going on over here.

And the bottom line is: there's currently only 7 hours and 45 minutes left in today's giveaway and there's only comments from FIFTEEN posters. Maybe Archangel's right and GOTD will get around to fixing it someday. But will they lose an awful lot of people out of frustration over the time it will take them to get around to fixing it - like the problems with the supposedly "unfixable" email notification issue? I have no way of knowing, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were. The ironic part is that GOTD says they want suggestions and maybe they do - like with the new evaluation system - and maybe they don't - like with all the other frustrations people have posted about in this forum.

Also, don't you find it interesting that someone changed Graylox's title from "Scary Things", unless it was Lady Gray herself?

As to your proposal, it's well thought out, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Hidden complaints from long time members might help some get out their frustrations, but will GOTD read them and change anything, either? And it won't help address the concerns of all the newbies that we drive away by telling them to "sit down and shut up; GOTD is free and everything's fine".

I was rereading what I wrote and that line

I dont see many here, but if they through, we can make a post on that page for any mods.

should be- I don't see many here(spammers posts), but if they get through we can post a link on the invisible thread for any mods.

It was really late when I wrote all this. For me its usually better to wait till after a nap to make a post, cause I take meds similar to rabbits.

Actually, I thought I had made more of statement than just that, watcher. I guess that got deleted. I changed what I wrote about 4 times, cause each time I typed out my thoughts, I reread your post and realized I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I am pretty sure I went with a statement, though. Than just to make a comment at something someone here takes seriously.
So, I will just say if I did leave it that way then, I apologize.
If I didn't and my comments were deleted then someone is going crazy drunk with power, because it wasn't that serious.
I will try again.
___________________________________________

I was thinking that a couple threads could be set up for us frequent posters that are invisble.
We could talk about issues that cant be talk about in the open and another example of one the threads could be a spammer thread. I dont see many here, but if they through, we can make a post on that page for any mods.

The mods logging on can just patrol through those areas with out having to reply or check pm's and see that everything is o.k.
----------------
This doesn't solve the issue of the missing posts and comments, I know its a mod thats been here a while and that they are pretty zealous. If he/she would do like Chip and leave a message as to what was wrong with the post, I would be happy as would most other people.

I think the most fundamental question here, besides who the mystery scalper is, why are they deleting them. Is it because they personally find them offensive or because the post or message breaks the rules.

You're right watcher13, we all should be getting aggravated, because this is becoming more bold and deleting more stuff. Have ya'll noticed this behavior?

I have some ideas on catching this person, but it would take a high level mod that can see ip's.

That's very touching watcher13 but you have to remember is that they are in control. Its there mistakes to make and if they don't want you to monitor there comments on the front page or here in the forums, thats what they chose to do! I'm sorry to be so blunt but one of the mod's had said you'd had asked on many occasions to moderate. Its not up to them, its up to the PTB and they'd said no. Please accept that and help like the others do. We may be limited but at least we are still here.

Sincerely,
Archangel

I'm sorry, Archangel, but you misunderstood. I'm not talking about the forums. I'm talking about the main page where the only one I know that has ever been extended moderator privileges has been Bubby (at least since I've been aware in the last year), even though others have volunteered and been suggested to the GOTD team. Gotta be sure we're comparing apples and apples here when we comment on someone else's comment. Who's talking about patience? Comments on the main page have been steadily decreasing since the redesign for whatever the reason. That's part of the point of this thread. In fact, I was trying to defend GOTD originally farther up in this thread when I said some of these problems may be technical, so you're preaching to the choir, there. Like I say, some people chastise you every time you criticize, so, though you may honestly think it's funny, Txnnok, (and I assure you, I've got no bone to pick with you. This comment isn't addressed to you.) you might notice there's some truth to it, too. I guess if I'm patient enough, comments in the coment section may disappear entirely. I guess that will solve the problem. Some people like to criticize you ever time by saying "don't worry, be happy". What I've never understood is: if some people really pretty much don't care and don't let anything bother them, why do THEY bother to comment at all? I guess what bothers them is that everybody doesn't see things their way, so I guess THEY'RE more critical than they'd like to let on.

Oh well I deleted that post because I wasn't sure if I was allowed to giveaway the key on here or not and when your not sure it's best to play it safe lol. So thanks I appreciate it. I was one of 10,000 winners which seems like alot but still I'd hate to see it go to waste. You need both an XBOX 360 with xbox live and the actual game itself which I have neither. I'm not gonna post the key publicy and have a bunch of people all trying the same key haha. So if anyone wants a free unlock code for the Professor Chaos chararcter in South Park, Let's Go Tower Defense Play! Xbox Live Arcade Game please PM me and you can have it :)

Ditto Txnnok! ROTFL

All moderators and most admins are volunteers here and I'd feel safe to say that 99% of the people that asked for a moderators job got it. Websites evolve just like anything else and there are growing pains and mistakes. Have a little patience and it will all work out.

Thankyou graylox so it wasnt just me, I would send him a pm, but it wasnt to get giveaway/promotion. I was going to make a bad joke about that if PS3 I would go for it and post a pic of this
http://computer-choppers.com/index.html.
I'll save the actual screen shots, cause this isnt the same as the games or software area.I noticed the ps3 on my yahoo startup page
http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/gold-ps3-is-gold-costs-five-grand/1380758
and then I was going to congratulate him on winning. I almost got in that same giveaway he was talking about, but I only have regular xbox, so i didnt bother.
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Chip if you come across this, congrats on your win.
--------------------------

watcher-

You got me tickled-"as if any criticism will kill the project"-
that's funny

Speaking of scary things happening with the comments: 4 posters today on the main page, 6 hours into GOTD time, with the last one in the general commnents posted FIVE hours ago. Meanwhile, 12 on the game page, with the last one only 45 minutes ago, thanks to the ever diligent WR.

Putting much effort into moderation, GOTD staff? But you don't want to extend privileges to volunteers because it might cause you problems??? I know this will probably get a bad reaction, but I have to laugh at people who rebuke posters here that say negative things, as if any criticism will kill the project (understand, I'm not saying it's happening in this thread). Like I say, this will probably get a bad reaction, but I'm starting to think GOTD doesn't need anyone's help to kill the project. They seem to be doing just fine on their own. Sheesh!

Please send Chip a PM, it seems he has deleted that post.

I almost made a new post about posts disappearing, I thought this got deleted.

Was it my imagination or did Chip have a post up about an Xbox 360 game earlier today?

I was going to make a comment on it, but now it is gone.

Thanks for bringing this up graylox. Some simply quit posting not knowing what was happening. I have respect for those mentioned here in this thread for the work they put in this forum.

yeah that was taken at my birthday party this year....surprised me when they popped out from around the corner =D

Yeah, thanks for volunteering, Wizz. I figured you folks wouldn't mind helping WR. As I've said before, GOTD seems relunctant to extend privileges to almost anybody. Just seems to fit their philosophy to play their cards extremely close to the vest. Gotta say, though, your avatar is TRULY bizarre!

Edit:
BTW, comments are still way down from what I, at least, was used to before the redesign. I wouldn't be surprised if there still weren't problems.

It's good to see things are back to normal.
:)
A special thanks to Lady Gray for today's review of Digital Photo Organizer.

And Wizz,it's nice to read you're willing to help Stephen.I hope the Gotd crew takes you up on your offer.

I've offered to help with the Game side of Giveaway, and Stephen put in a good word for me not only professionally but as a friend which we have grown to be. To my knowledge he has never really received a yay or nay and it's been a good month if not two since then. My offer still stands and hopefully GOTD will take me up on it. Stephen puts in so many hours, though I know you truly love it Stephen it's easy to see your passion, but he can't do it all himself.

WOOW! It seems that the maintenance day was successful :)
At least for my review. It was immediately released - without calling BuBBy for help.

Let's hope that this is not just a lucky day for me, but that the GOTD team really improved the system.
Thanks!

DITTO what Robert said!

Stephen,sure you must know I have the deepest admiration for you,BuBBy ,Gray,Wizz and the others.
It's the application comment section,the main page, I was talking about.That's the place where people meet for starters when coming to Gotd.
My point was they might temporarily be a bit short on staff over there.

...so I want to thank you once more for your unsurpassed dedication and efforts in the game and forum section!
:)

Robert

I agree with watcher. Stephen, I would feel awful if I were to learn that you are putting your work here before your health. If you are pushing yourself harder than you should be then you need to ask for help. I'm sure there is someone who can step up and cover some of your tasks if you need them to.

Please don't over do it just for us!

Actually, WR, the problem is that GOTD doesn't get around to asking reliable, dependable, conscientious folks like you and the other moderators here to moderate the main page (with the notable exception of Bubby, of course). I imagine you folks could handle it all by yourselves and GOTD would be much, much better off than the current (non)"system". The problem is that that part of the site is even remotely moderated as well as this part and the game page are. I realize they may not want to extend a lot of privileges to people that might be coming and going, but, surely, they are people who have been here from the beginning and may be here to the end. Surely, they're dependable.

Actually, I worry about you sometimes, Stephen. I think you do too much sometimes. I imagine that Wizz or RO or others wouldn't mind splitting the game moderation with you, if you could get GOTD to extend one of them the privileges. And I'm sure you folks wouldn't have any trouble communicating with each other to come up with a common approach to moderating, something which seems to be beyond GOTD staff.